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非洲司司长卢沙野接受

非洲司司长卢沙野接受
非洲司司长卢沙野接受

非洲司司长卢沙野接受《时代》周刊记者采访实录

2010/09/19

9月17日,外交部非洲司司长卢沙野接受了《时代》周刊驻京分社社长毕菡娜的采访。全文如下:

记者:中华人民共和国自成立以来,就与非洲国家有着长期友好的关系,特别是最近几年这种关系得到了进一步的巩固和深化,我想听听您对这种关系的看法。

卢:中国同非洲的关系应该说有相当长的历史了。从新中国成立,以及绝大多数非洲国家独立以后,我们双方就建立起了友好的交往与合作关系。

我想可以从四个角度全面审视中非关系:首先,中非关系的历史性。我们要有历史的眼光,中非关系不是始于今日。当前很多国家很关注中非关系,但在他们眼里中非关系似乎只是近10年的事,但实际上中非关系至少已有半个多世纪了。今天中非关系的发展是立足于中非传统友谊的基础上的。如果不了解中非关系的历史,就不能了解中非关系的现实。中国和非洲国家过去都曾遭受过殖民主义的侵略和奴役,有着相似的历史遭遇,解放后和独立后又都面临着共同的发展任务。所以中国和非洲应该说有着天然的友好感情。所以,中国在上世纪50-70年代,同非洲开展的友好合作都是非常无私和真诚的。我们在非洲国家争取民族独立和解放的过程中向它们提供了很大的支持;在它们独立之后也提供了很多的经济援助,帮助他们建立国民经济体系。在这个过程中实际上中国没有要求任何经济回报。中国没有从非洲国家拿一滴石油,没有从非洲国家开采一吨矿石。现在很多国家觉得中国在非洲的存在很突出,实际上那个时候中国就已经在非洲存在了,中国在70年代初在非洲就建设了1800公里长的坦赞铁路。这么大一个项目在今天也算是举世瞩目了。只不过可能当时中国的发展还不是那么突出,国际上还没有太多的人注意到中国,所以对于中国在非洲做的事情也没有人去关注。刚才我说,中非之间有天然的友好感情。其实这种帮助是相互的。中国向非洲提供了支持,反过来非洲也支持了中国,如1971年中国恢复在联合国的合法席位,就得到了非洲国家的大力支持。

中非关系的第二个特点就是道义性。中非之间的合作,中国向非洲国家提供援助,实际是履行中国作为一个发展中的大国对于国际社会的责任。我们常说没有非洲的发展,就没有世界的繁荣,所以帮助非洲发展是国际社会的共同责任。中国同非洲的合作首先是发展中国家之间的互帮互助,是南南合作的一个重要的体现。

记者:您刚才提到帮助非洲是国际社会的共同责任。我们也注意到在冷战后由于美国和前苏联实力下降,他们对非洲提供的经济援助也下降了。这是否给了中国一个机会加大对非投资。还是说仅仅因为中国变得越来越富裕了,口袋里有更多的钱去帮助非洲国家呢?

卢:你说的这两点都有点道理,这是一个时代机遇的问题。冷战结束之后,苏联解体,美国总体上对非洲的关注减少,对非洲的投入也减少了。这个时候正好是中国发展比较快的时期。因此,这里既有发达国家对非洲投入减少的因素,又有中国由于经济发展加速,实力增强,有更多的能力、资金和手段来帮助非洲的因素。这两个因素碰到了一块,可以说是一个历史的巧合。所以我刚才讲这是中国作为一个发展中大国对国际社会的责任。也就是说,我们既是一个发展中国家,又是一个大国。我们不仅履行的是发展中国家之间的互帮互助的责任,也履行作为一个世界性大国对非洲这些发展中国家的责任。中国的开国领袖毛泽东主席曾说过,中华民族应当为人类做出更大的贡献。那么现在中国帮助非洲,就是在为全人类做贡献。

中非关系的第三个特点就是全面性。现在外界关注中非关系更多的是关注中非经贸关系,这没有错,但中非关系不仅是经贸关系。的确,最近10年中非经贸合作发展确实很快,比如说中非贸易额10年中增加了10倍。但实际上中国和非洲还在其他更广泛的领域开展了很多合作,比如说同非洲国家加强政治交往,增进政治互信,我们在国际事务上加强协调沟通、相互支持,特别是在应对国际金融危机,应对气候变化的挑战,应对粮食安全,以及处理非洲的地区和平与安全问题上,中非都进行了很好的合作。我可以举个例子,现在联合国在非洲开展的所有维和行动中国都参加了。中国是联合国安理会5个常任理事国中,向联合国在非维和行动派驻维护人员最多的国家。另外,我们对非洲地区组织自主调解非洲地区冲突的努力给予了政治上、道义上、物资上的支持。比如我们向非盟在索马

里和苏丹的维和行动提供了物资援助。中国政府还任命了中国政府非洲事务特别代表,积极参与非洲地区问题的调解、斡旋和解决,支持非洲国家和地区组织谋求非洲和平与安全的努力。除了经贸之外,我们还在社会发展领域开展了广泛合作。我不知道你是否了解中非之间有一个对话和合作的机制叫中非合作论坛。这个论坛是2000年成立,每三年开一次会。每次开会中国政府都会提出一系列对非务实合作的举措。这些举措的很大一部分都涉及到非洲的社会民生。我可以给你说几个数字,以使你有个直观的了解。在2009年11月召开的中非合作论坛第四届部长级会议上,温家宝总理宣布了8项对非合作举措。当然这其中有很多经贸合作举措,也很重要,我可以不说。我只列举社会民生方面的一些数字。比如在农业合作方面,我们在非洲的农业技术推广中心将增加到20个,3年之内向非洲派50个农业技术工作组。为了支持非洲国家的教育事业,今后3年我们将为非洲建50

座学校。为了帮助非洲国家应对气候变化的挑战,我们将在今后3年为非洲建设100个清洁能源项目,包括太阳能、沼气、小水电等。为了帮助非洲发展科学技术事业,今后3年我们将同非洲国家开展100个科研项目合作。在人员培训方面,今后三年我们将邀请100名非洲的博士后到中国参与工作,给非洲国家培训200名公共管理硕士、1500名中学校长和教师、2000名农业技术人员、3000名医生护士和医疗管理人员,每年向非洲国家提供5500个来华留学奖学金名额。我们可以看出中非的合作非常广泛,我们的目的也是帮助非洲国家改善民生,实现发展。

中非关系的第四个特点是可持续性。这反映在三个方面:一是中非合作的真诚与平等性。我们始终同非洲国家平等相待,从来不对他们指手画脚,不当教师爷,也不会把自己的意识形态和政治体制强加给他们,跟他们的合作也不附加什么条件。我们也不会拿援助来作为干涉他国内政的一个工具。所以非洲国家和中国打交道时,觉得很轻松,没有受压抑受歧视的感觉。这就是为什么几十年来中非关系持续健康发展的原因。二是互惠互利。中非合作既对非洲有利,当然也对中国有利。中国向非洲提供了资金、技术、经验,帮助非洲实现发展,帮助他们把资源优势和人力资源的潜在优势转化为实实在在的发展能力。当然了,中国在合作中也获取了自身发展所需要的资源和市场。中国在非洲有经济利益这是很正常的。任何国家在非洲都有自己的利益。中国在非洲获取利益,实现自己的发展,实际上也使中国有更多的能力和手段来帮助非洲。所以说,这就是互利共赢。三是中非合

作的务实高效。现在很多国家特别是西方国家都说中非合作很“务实”,喜欢用PRAGMATIC 这个词。这个词是说明中国对非合作的举措是实实在在的,而不是说中国对非合作的动机的功利性。比如,从我刚才介绍的一系列数字就可以看到中国对非合作的实在性。中国在开展对非合作时,一定是根据非洲国家的切实需要,非洲国家需要什么,我们就给他们做什么。而且中国一定是根据自己的能力和财力去做。我们不会去承诺超出我们能力和财力的事情。我们一旦答应的事情,则一定会实实在在地给他们做好。“高效”是大家有目共睹的,非洲国家抱怨他们跟国际组织和西方国家谈合作项目,没有5-6年定不下来,而同中国仅需1-2年,具体实施只需2-3年。我举一个很小的例子:减债。2000年中非合作论坛第一届部长级会议时,中国政府承诺在今后3年内减免非洲32个最不发达国家和重债穷国欠中国的105亿元人民币的债务。按当时比价大概折合12-13亿美元。这对于很多西方国家来说不是大数,但对当时的中国来说很不容易。在会议召开后的两年之内,中方就完全兑现了承诺。实际上,减债不是中国的首创。在上世纪90年代中期国际机构就提出了一个“重债穷国减债计划”,但直到2000年没有一个国家实实在在地受益,因为这里边有个十分复杂的程序。我说这些不是想贬低别人,抬高自己,只是想说明中非合作的“高效”。

记者:我想对您刚才提到的“可持续性”问题加一个追问,刚才您提到中国向非洲提供经济援助时不附加政治条件,您的意思是其他国家有附加政治条件,是这个意思吗?

卢:我有这种感觉。比如说,很多西方国家总是把民主、人权、良政作为援助的先决条件。我们中国不提这些,因为我们感觉这是别人的内部事务,别人采取什么方式、什么进程来实现良政是他们自己的事。我们可以提一些建设性意见,但不可以干涉他们,教他们怎么做。因为每个国家的情况差异很大,在一个国家行得通的东西,在另一个国家不一定行得通。各个国家的历史文化传统、国民素质、经济发展水平都制约着民主人权发展进程。每个国家的人民都是聪明智慧的,他们可以通过同别的民族合作交往,进行比较,知道什么好,什么不好,不需要别人来教。所以中国在同非洲开展合作时,不附加任何条件,我们认为自己没有资格去教训非洲国家和人民。

记者:在很多年之前,如果我们看到非洲媒体报道,经常会在头版头条看到非洲国家

很高兴看到中国对非援助日益增加,而且不附加任何政治条件。但是如今如果你看他们的媒体报道,至少有一些会说中国对非援助有了倒退,您认为为什么会有这种现象,您认为这种报道正确吗?

卢:您讲的中国对非援助倒退是质量上的,还是数量上减少,还是说不如以前那么受欢迎了?

记者:应该不是指规模或数量上的。我看非洲媒体报道,感觉指的是中国虽然提供了一些钱,但只用中国工人,非洲本地获益不大。

卢:我也在琢磨这个问题。的确,非洲媒体有了一些变化,对中非合作的负面报道好像多起来了。我在思考是什么原因。我想可能有三个方面的因素:第一,随着中非合作扩大,项目多了,参与项目的中国工人也就多了。中国企业为什么带中国工人到非洲做项目?因为很多项目要求比较高的技术水平,时限要求也比较高。我们引进一部分工人,是为了保证工程的工期和质量。由于中非合作规模大大扩展,项目多了,中国工人在非洲的数量就显得比较突出。实际上,无论是中国在非洲的基础设施建设项目还是投资项目,中国工人的比例并不高。比如说,我在塞内加尔当了3年多大使。我们在塞内加尔援建的最大项目是国家大剧院。我在那里的时候,这个项目的中方公司人员(主要是技术工人和工程师)只有五六十人,当地工人则有四五百人。我们在塞内加尔还有一个渔业合资公司。该公司只在技术和管理层有20多名中方员工,其他都是当地员工,有1000多人。我想中国在其他非洲国家的情况大致也是这样。因为中国在外面的项目多了,别人就感觉中国工人多了,但其实比例很低。第二,可能跟对非洲当地公司形成竞争有关。中国公司的到来对他们构成同行竞争,非洲的一些企业就会有抱怨,指责中国把自己的工人引进到非洲国家。第三个原因是媒体的一种渲染。媒体特别是西方的媒体,往往在这方面夸大一些数字和事实。久而久之影响到非洲当地媒体和民众的意见。因为媒体的传播特点就是“好事不出门,坏事行千里”。好事没有人去宣传,比如我刚才提到的事实。但像中国工人增多之类的所谓“坏事”,就会到处报道,弄得沸沸扬扬。我们的对策是老老实实把自己的事情做好,同时客观真实地向有关媒体和民众做些解释澄清工作。

记者:您刚才提到,中国对非的经济援助达到前所未有的规模,而去非洲的不仅仅是外交官,还有很多工人和管理者。他们在赴非之前做什么准备?

卢:至少外交官在赴非之前要做一些准备。首先是业务上的准备,同时对所去的国家要有个了解,做些知识上的准备。当然还有生活上的准备。我想企业也要做一些相应的准备。首先要加强对非洲的了解。思想上要有一个意识,到非洲去不光是赚钱,你还承担着增进中非友好,展示中国国家形象的责任。当然我们不是官方硬性规定,只是希望他们在赴非之前应该有这些意识。公司也一定会给工人提供技术培训,使他们能胜任工作。中国政府对中国企业到非洲也是有要求的,就是一定要遵纪守法,合法经营,同时要尊重当地民风民俗,同当地人民和谐相处,履行企业的社会责任。当然现在去非洲的企业多了,有的做得好,有的做的不怎么好。

记者:您刚才提到,外交官在赴非之前要先了解当地国情。我想问中国在非洲外交官的数目?过去10年中,中国驻非洲的外交官数目有无变化?

卢:过去10年,中国外交官数目不仅在非洲,即使在全球都没有什么变化。相反我们的外交工作任务却是成倍增长。只有挖掘人的潜力,提高人的素质和能力,才能完成任务。比如说外交部会为自己的员工提供很多培训机会。我们有在职培训、脱产培训、任前培训、任职培训,还有到国外培训,国内国外交流和国内各地区司的轮岗交流,以扩大外交官的眼界和知识面,提高他们的素质和能力。

记者:我当然理解你们希望充分挖掘外交官的潜能,但是考虑到中非关系的规模,你们难道不希望增加外交官的数量吗?

卢:我本人是希望增加,但我们政府有规定,要精简机构。不要说增加了,只要不减少就很不错了。我想可能至少近几年不会有增加的希望。每个国家都在精简政府编制。

记者:正如您说的,中国同世界各国的关系,特别是非洲国家的关系不断加深。从这种意义上说,增加外交官编制有现实意义。

卢:我们也是一有合适的机会就向上级提出建议,但至今没有结果。也希望您帮忙呼

吁一下。

记者:美国也在精简外交机构。正如您所说,每个国家都在面临这样的问题。

记者:您刚才提到,中国的一个原则就是不干涉内政,但这也受到了西方国家的一些批评。比如说中国在发展同非洲特定国家,如津巴布韦的双边关系中就出现这种问题。因为津巴布韦被认为是一个专制的国家。您对此有何回应?

卢:津巴布韦是一个什么样的国家,每个国家都有各自的价值评判标准。中国视津巴布韦为我们的传统友好国家。我们同津巴布韦发展关系,都是从增进两国人民友谊和利益,促进两国共同发展的目的出发的。我们不会去干涉津巴布韦内政,但这不表明我们对津巴布韦发生的政治经济危机漠不关心。我们是以自己的方式来推动津国内各政治派别通过政治协商,达成政治和解,为自己国家人民的利益着想。所以我们对津巴布韦两党三方成立民主团结政府是很高兴的。我们希望他们能够加强合作,能够使国家形势逐步走上好的发展轨道。说实话,对一个国家、一个政权的好恶,说到底取决于有关国家的自身利益。西方国家说津巴布韦是独裁政权,难道它们打交道的其他所有国家政权都符合西方的民主和价值观标准吗?如果西方国家严格按照自己的意识形态、价值观标准决定它们同别国的关系的话,那么世界上有2/3 甚至3/4的国家,西方国家都不应同它们发展关系。所以我觉得这其实是一个双重标准问题。

记者:您刚才提到,中国在非盟框架下对索马里、苏丹提供帮助。您也说到,中国不干涉他国内政,但会以自己的方式促进津巴布韦国内和解。我想,在苏丹、索马里问题上也是这样。那中国怎么平衡这两个方面,一方面是不干涉内政,一方面以自己的方式参与。

卢:中国奉行不干涉别国内政原则,但会以自己的方式积极参与非洲调解地区冲突的努力。中国的做法是符合中国传统文化的。我们不是那么张扬,那么自以为是。我们会向有关国家提供我们的意见,供他们参考,但不会把我们的意见强加于人,说你不接受就怎么样怎么样。我们在同有关国家打交道时,总是从他们的立场、他们的角度来分析利弊。这样他们比较容易接受。更重要的一点是,我们非常尊重和重视非洲地区组织以及非洲国家的作用。因为我们知道,非洲人比任何人更了解非洲,非洲人有能力自己解决自己的问

题。所以你可以看到,在很多问题上,中国是通过支持非洲区域组织的倡议来发挥作用的,比如非盟和南共体分别在苏丹和津巴布韦问题上的倡议。这是中国独特的做法。

记者:谢谢您向我阐述了中国的方式。非常感谢您接受采访。

卢:很高兴接受您的采访。时间有限,不然我们可以讨论更多问题。

Time Magazine Interview with Mr. Lu Shaye, Director-General of Department of African Affairs

2010/09/25

On September 17 2010, Mr. Lu Shaye, Director-General of Department of African Affairs of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs was interviewed byHannah Beech, Time magazine's Beijing bureau chief. The following is the full transcript of the interview.

Reporter: Ever since its founding, the People's Republic of China has enjoyed long-term friendly relations with African countries. Particularly in the last several years, these relations has become further solidified and deepened. I would like to hear your view on the relations.

Lu: It is fair to say China-Africa relations enjoysa fairly long history. Since the founding of the People's Republic of China and the independence of most African countries, we have established friendly relations based on exchanges and cooperation.

I think one can view China-Africa relations from four perspectives. The firstisthe historical perspective. We need to have a historical view, in the sense that China-Africa relations did not start from yesterday. Currently, many countries focus on China-Africa relations, but in their minds these relations were just about last 10 years, while in reality China-Africa relations have been through at least half a century. The China-Africa relations today are really based onthe traditional China-Africa friendship, and it is

impossible to understand the real China-Africa relations without a good understanding of the history of these relations. China and African countries all suffered invasion and slavery under colonialism, and shared similar historical experiences. After liberation and independence, they also faced common development tasks. Therefore, naturally China and Africa have friendly feelings for each other.For the same reason, from 1950s to 1970s, China was selfless and sincere in developing friendly cooperation with Africa. We provided strong support toAfrican countries in their struggle for national independence and liberation.After their independence, we provided a great deal of economic assistance and helped them to build their national economies. And China did not ask for any economic payback inthe whole process. China never took a single drop of oil or a single ton of ore from African countries. Today many countries think China has a strong presence in Africa, but China was present in Africa way back then. In the early 1970s, China already built an 1800-kilometer Tanzania-Zambia railroad, which would still qualify as a spectacular project even today. It was probably because back then China's development was not very prominent, so few in the world noticed China, and hence few paid any attention to what China did in Africa. As I just said, naturally China and Africa have friendly feelings for each other. Actually the help goes both ways. China provided assistance to Africa, and in return Africa supported China. For example, China received strong support from African countries in its drive to restore its legitimate seatintheUnited Nations in 1971.

The second characteristic of China-Africa relations is the moral imperative. China-Africa cooperation, including China's assistance to African countries, is in fact China's responsibility to international community as a big developing country. We often say there is no prosperity in the world without the development of Africa, so helping Africa in its development in a joint responsibility ofthe international community. China-Africa cooperation is firstand foremostmutual assistance between developing countries, and

also an important example of South-South cooperation.

Reporter: You just mentioned helping Africa is a joint responsibility of the international community. We also noticed after the end of Cold War, as United States and former Soviet Union both declined in their powers, their economic assistance to Africa also declined. Did this offer China an opportunity to invest in Africa? Or rather it is merely because China has become more and more prosperous, so China has more money in the pocket to help African countries?

Lu: Both of your points aresomewhatvalid,actually. It is a matter of historical opportunity. After the end of Cold War, Soviet Union disintegrated, and overall United States paid less attention and made less investment to Africa. At the same time, China happened to be growing fairly rapidly. So on the one hand developed countries reduced their investment in Africa, and on the other as Chinahasaccelerated its economic growth and increased its strength, it had more capacity, funds and means to help Africa.The combination of the two circumstances could be seen as a historical coincidence. That is why I just said that thatis China's responsibility to international community as a big developing country. In other words, we are not only a developing country but also a big country. We are not just fulfilling the responsibility of mutual assistance between developing countries, but also fulfilling our responsibility to African developing countries as a big country in the world.ChairmanMao Zedong, the founding father of the People's Republic of China, once said the Chinese people should make greater contributions to the mankind. Therefore as China helps Africa, it is also making contributions tothemankind.

RegardingChina-Africa relations, thethird characteristic isthe comprehensiveness of thescope. Currently, the outside world is focused more on economic and trade aspects of China-Africa relations. This is certainly valid, but China-Africa relations are more than economic and trade. Indeed, in the last 10 years, China-Africa trade cooperation has

grownvery rapidly, with China-Africa trade volume increasing 10 fold in 10 years, forexample. But in reality, China and Africa have developed cooperation in many areas, such as strengthening political exchanges, increasing political mutual trust, strengthening coordination, communications and mutual support in international affairs. Particularly China and Africa have conducted good cooperation in meeting the challenges of global financial crisis, climate change and food security, as well as in dealing with regional peace and security issues in Africa. I can give you an example: China has participated in all UN peacekeeping operations in Africa. Among the five permanent members of the UN Security Council, China has providedmore personnel to UN peacekeeping operations in Africa than any other country. In addition, we also provided political, moral and material support to African regional organizations in their indigenous efforts to mediate regional conflicts in Africa. For example, China has provided material assistance to African Union in its peacekeeping operations in Somali and Sudan. China has also appointed its Special Representative for African Affairs, actively participated in the mediation and resolution of African regional issues, and supported African countries and regional organizations in their efforts to seek peace and security in Africa. In addition to economic and trade cooperation, we also developed extensive cooperation in social development area. I am not sure if you know there is a dialogue and cooperation mechanism between China and Africa called Forum on China-Africa Cooperation (FOCAC). FOCAC was established in 2000, with a Ministerial Conference convened every 3 years. At each Conference, Chinese Government would propose a series of measures to strengthen practical cooperation with Africa. A big part of these measures concern socialdevelopment andwell-beingof theAfrican people. I can give you some statistics, so you can get a more specific perspective. At the Fourth FOCAC Ministerial Conference held in November 2009, Premier Wen Jiabao announced 8 measures on China-Africa cooperation. Sure,quite a few of them are economic and trade measures, which are very important and I can skip them here. I will

just list some statistics concerning social development and well beingfor the African people. For instance,regarding agricultural cooperation, we would increase the number of agricultural technology demonstration centers to 20, send 50 agricultural technology teams to Africa in the next 3 years. To support education in African countries, we would build 50 schools in Africa in the next 3 years. To help African countries meet the challenge of climate change, we would build 100 clean energy projects like solar power, biogas, and small hydro-power plants etc in the next 3 years. To help Africa develop science and technology, we would carry out 100 joint projects on scientific and technological research in the next 3 years. On personnel training, in the next 3 years, we would invite 100 African postdoctoral fellows to conduct scientific research in China, train 200 MPAs (master of public administration), 1,500 middle-school principals and teachers, 2,000 agricultural technology personnel, 3,000 doctors, nurses and medical management personnel for African countries, and increase the number of Chinese government scholarships to Africa to 5,500. We can see clearly that China-Africa cooperation is very extensive in scope, and our goal is to help African countries to improve the well-beingfor their people and realize development.

The fourth characteristic of China-Africa relations is sustainability, which is reflected in 3 aspects. The first aspect is sincerity and equality in China-Africa cooperation. China and Africa have always treated each other equally. We never lecture them on what they should do, as we do not see ourselves as a teacher. We do not impose our ideology and political system on them, and we never attach any strings in cooperation with them. We would never use aid as a tool to interfere in other countries' internal affairs. As a result, African countries feel relaxed when dealing with China, never feeling oppressed or discriminated against. This is the reason for the consistent and healthy development of China-Africa relations through all these decades. The second aspect is mutual benefit. China-Africa cooperation is beneficial to Africa and certainly beneficial to China as well. China has provided capital, technology and experience to Africa, helped Africa in its

development, and transform itsadvantagesand potentials in natural andhuman resources into real development capacity. Of course, China has also gained resources and markets necessary for its own development. It is perfectly normal that China has economic interests in Africa. Every country has its interests in Africa. As China acquires its interests in Africa to fulfill its own development, actually China also acquires more capacity and means to help Africa. That is why we can call this mutual beneficialand win-win. The third is the pragmatic and highly efficient aspect of China-Africa cooperation. Today many countries,especially Western countries,say China-Africa cooperation is very "pragmatic", a term they like to use. This term means China's cooperation measures with Africa are real, without any utilitarianism behinditsmotivations in cooperation with Africa. For example, you can see the honestyof China-Africa cooperation from the statistics I just cited. When China develops cooperation with Africa, itis always based on the actual needs of the African countries. We will provide whatever African countries need. And China will always do it based on its own capacity andfinancial resources. We donot pledge anything beyond our capacity and financial capability. Anything we do pledge though, we will surely deliver and deliver it well. "High efficiency" is something apparent to everyone. African countries complain that when they negotiate with international organizations or Western countries on cooperation projects, it would take 5-6 years to finalize the deal. Yet with China this process is reduced to 1-2 years, with actual implementation lasting only 2-3 years. I can give you another smallexample: debt relief. At the First FOCAC Ministerial Conference in 2000, China pledged to cancel debt of 10.5 billion Yuan incurred by 32 least developed countries and heavily indebted poor Countries in Africa in the following3 years. According to the currency exchange rate then, this was roughly equivalent to 1.2 to 1.3 billion U.S. dollars. This is not a huge sum for many Western countries, but it was not easy at all for China back then. Within 2 years after the Conference, China already completely fulfilled its pledge. In fact, debt relief was not something invented by China.

In mid-1990s, international institutions already proposed "Debt Relief under the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries Initiative". Yet up until 2000, not a single country really benefited from it, as there was a very complex process to go through. I am not saying this to belittle anyone else for self-praise. I am just illustrating the "high efficiency" in China-Africa cooperation.

Reporter: I would like to follow up on the "sustainability" point you just mentioned. You just said China does not attach political strings when offering economic assistance to Africa. You imply some other countries do attach political strings, is this correct?

Lu: I do feel this way. For example, many Western countries always use democracy, human rights and good governance as preconditions to their aid. China does not bring up these issues, as we feel this is someone else' internal affairs, and what means and processes they would use to achieve good governance is their own business. We can offersome constructive suggestions, but cannot interfere in their affairs and tell them what to do. As the situation in each country can be very different, what works in one country may not work in another. For each country, its history, cultural traditions, citizens'educationlevel and economic development level can all serve to constrain thedevelopment process ofdemocracy and human rights.And the people from everycountry are intelligent and wise. Through interactions with people from other countries, they compare and find out what is good and what is not. They don't need anyone to tell themthat. Therefore, China does not attach any strings when developing cooperation with Africa. We don't think we are qualified to lecture African countries and people.

Reporter: Many years ago, in theAfrican press coverage, we often saw headlines about African countries very happy to see more and more assistance coming from China and without any political strings attached. Yet today, if you check their press coverage, at least some would say China's assistance to Africa is backtracking. In your view, what is

the reason behind this phenomenon? Do you think this press coverage is correct?

Lu: When you say China's assistance to Africa is backtracking, do you mean a reduction in quality or reduction in quantity, or it is not as welcome as before?

Reporter: It should be something other than scale or quantity. When I read African press coverage, I feel it means even though China provided some money, but China only hired Chinese workers, with the local Africans gaining little.

Lu: I am also pondering about this issue. Indeed, African media are goingthrough some changes, seemingly with more negative coverage on China-Africa cooperation. I am thinking about the reasons behind this. I think there might be three reasons for this. First, with China-Africa cooperation expanding, there are more projects and more Chinese workers participating in these projects. Why do Chinese enterprises bring Chinese workers to Africa to work in these projects? Because many projects require a fairly high level of technical expertise, and need to meet fairly tight deadlines. The reason we bring in some Chinese workers is to ensure meeting deadlines and quality standards. As China-Africa cooperation greatly expands in its scale, there are more and more projects, and the number of Chinese workers in Africa becomes more prominent. In fact, whether it is China's infrastructure development projects or investment projects in Africa, the proportion of Chinese workers is not high. For example, I was Ambassador to Senegal for 3 years. Our biggest aid project in Senegal is the national grand theater. When I was there, there were only about fifty to sixty Chinese personnel (mainly technicians and engineers) from the Chinese company involved in the project, yet there were four to five hundred local workers. We also had a joint venture fishing company in Senegal. The company only had twenty some Chinese employees inthetechnical and management areas, with the rest being all local employees numbering more than a thousand. I think the situation in other African countries is roughly the same. As China has more projects in Africa, people feel there are more Chinese workers, but the actual

proportion is not so high. Secondly, this may be due to competition with local African companies. For them, the arrival of Chinese companies brings competition to their industry, and some African enterprises may complain and accuse China of introducing their own workers to Africa. Thirdly, it is due to media exaggeration. The media, especially Western media, often overstatethenumbers and facts on this issue. Withtime, this kind of practice begins to affect the views of African press and local people. This is because of the characteristic of media propagation that "something good never getsout of the door, whilesomething bad spreadsa thousand miles". So good things such as the facts I just mentioned are never reported anywhere, yet the so-called "bad things" such as the increase of Chinese workers are reported everywhere,creating a lot of sensations. Our way to counter this is to conscientiously do our job well, and in the meantime to objectively and truthfully explain and clarify to the media and peopleconcerned.

Reporter: You just mentioned China's economic assistance to Africa has reached unprecedented scale, and the people going to Africa are not only diplomats, but also many workers and managers. What preparations should they make before going to Africa?

Lu: At least diplomats should make some preparations before going to Africa. The first is professional preparations; and in the meantime diplomats should also gain some understanding of the country they are going to, as part of the informationpreparations. Obviously diplomats also need to make preparations for everyday living. I think businesses should also make similarpreparations. The first is to strengthen their understanding of Africa. Also they should be aware that they are not just going to Africa to make money. Rather they are also bearing the responsibility to enhance China-Africa friendship and showcase the image of China. Of course, these are not official rules. We just hope they have this kind of awareness before going to Africa. Businesses must also

provide technical training to their workers, so they can do their jobs well. China also has requirements for Chinese enterprises in Africa, which demand they must abide by the local laws and regulations, run their businesses in a legal way, while at the same time respect local customs and practices, live harmoniously with local people, and fulfill their corporate social responsibility. Obviously, asthere are many enterprises going to Africa, some are doing a good jobwhile some others are not.

Reporter: You just mentioned diplomats should understand their destination country first before going to Africa. I would like to ask you about the number of diplomats in Africa. In the past 10 years, was there any change in the number of Chinese diplomats in Africa?

Lu: In the past 10 years, the number of Chinese diplomats remained the same not just in Africa, but also around the world. In contrast, our diplomatic work assignments have increased dramatically. Only through tappinghuman potentialsand raising the professional maturity and capabilities can thediplomats continue to complete their tasks.For example, our Ministry of Foreign Affairs provides many training opportunities for its employees. We have on-the-job training, off-the-job training, before-the-job training, and on-spot jobtraining, plus overseas training, domestic and overseas position rotations, and rotations between domestic positions in different departments. The goal of the training is to help diplomats to expand their horizons and knowledge, and to raise their professional competenceand capabilities.

Reporter: I certainly understand that you hope to fully tap the potential of the diplomats. But in light of the scale of China-Africa relations, don't you hope to see more diplomats coming?

Lu: Personally, I hope to see more diplomats, but our government has the policy for streamlining. It would be great if we don't reduce the number of diplomats, let alone increase it. I think at least in the next a few years there is no hope of any increase. Every

country is pursuing a more streamlined government.

Reporter: Just as you said, China's relations with other countries around the

world,especially African countries,continue to deepen. From this perspective, an increase in the number of diplomats would certainly have its practical significance.

Lu: We also make suggestions to our superiors on every appropriate occasion, but so far there are no results. We hope you can also help us to make an appeal.

Reporter: United States is also streamlining its diplomatic institutions. Just as you said, every country faces this issue.

Reporter: One of China's principles is non-interference in other countries' internal affairs. But this also attracted some criticisms from Western countries. For example, this issue arises when China develops bilateral relations with certain African countries such as Zimbabwe, as Zimbabwe is considered a totalitarian country. What is your response to this?

Lu: Regarding what country Zimbabwe is, every country has its own value system. China sees Zimbabwe as atraditional friend. When we develop relations with Zimbabwe, our goal is to strengthen the friendship and interests of both peoples, and promote the joint development of both countries. We will not interfere in Zimbabwe's internal affairs, but this does not mean we are indifferent to the political crisis that happened in Zimbabwe. We have our own ways to facilitate the various political parties in Zimbabwe to reach political reconciliation through political consultations, all in the best interests of their country and people. As a result, we are very happy to see a democratic and united government being formed bythe two political parties and three sides in Zimbabwe. We hope they can strengthen cooperation, and gradually bring their country to a better development path. Frankly, a judgment on a country or a government ultimately boils down to the self-interests of the country making it. Western countries said Zimbabwe

was a dictatorial state. Does that really mean all the states they deal with are up tothe Western democratic and other values? If Western countries do strictly follow their own ideology and values to determine their relations with other countries, then there are

two-thirds or even three-fourths of countries in the world that they should never develop relations with. So I think this is actually an issue of double standards.

Reporter: You just mentioned China provided assistance to Somali and Sudan within the African Union framework. You also said China does not interfere in other countries' internal affairs, but has its own ways to facilitate domestic reconciliation in Zimbabwe. I think it is the same situation on the Sudan and Somali issues. Then how does China balance the two aspects: on the one hand, China does not interfere in other countries' internal affairs; on the other hand, China has its own ways to participate.

Lu: China adheres to the principle of non-interferencein other countries' internal affairs, but has its own ways to actively participate in African initiatives to mediate regional conflicts. China's approach is consistent with its traditional culture. We are not so arrogant as to believe we always know better. We would offerour opinions to relevant countries as a referencepoint, but we do not impose our opinions on anyone, nor do we say that if you don't accept our opinions then something may happen. When we deal with the relevant countries, we always analyze the pros and cons from their positions and perspectives. In this way it is easier for them to accept our views. More importantly, we highly respect and value the role of African regional organizations and African countries. As we know, Africans know Africa better than anyone else, and Africans are able to solve their own problems by themselves. Therefore as you can see on many issues, China plays its role through supporting the initiatives by African regional organizations, such as the initiatives by African Union and Southern African Development Community on the Sudan issue and Zimbabwe issue, respectively. This is China's unique approach.

Reporter: Thank you for explaining China's approach to me. I really appreciate you taking the time for the interview.

Lu: It is a pleasure taking your interview. The time is rather limited orwe coulddiscuss more issues.

走出非洲经典台词

走出非洲经典台词 《走出非洲》根据丹麦女作家艾萨克·迪奈森的同名自传体小说改编,是一部表现得而复失-丧失了像田园诗一般美好、质朴生活的影片。它是以追溯往事的倒叙手法开始的:梅丽尔.斯特里普扮演的女主人公艾萨克.丹森已届垂暮之年,且已成为小说家,但她在丹麦故居终日缅怀往昔在东非肯尼亚度过的十几个春秋。当画面上出现她已故的情人芬奇.哈顿持枪行猎的身影时,艾萨克以低沉的声音述说过去。 丈夫波尔离开后的心灵独白: 道别是一种奇怪的感觉,中间夹杂着羡慕,男人出去接受考验,磨炼勇气,女人要接受的考验却是独自一人面对寂寞,磨炼耐性,送走了波尔,丹尼斯没有道别就离开了,非常正确的作法 在野外游玩的对话: 你不介意我是别人的妻子吗? 不 我只在意你的努力 与波尔离婚后的一个晚上,篝火 你出去做向导的时候会和别人在一起吗? 我只想和你在一起 你会感到寂寞吗? 偶尔会

有没有想过我会不会寂寞? 没有 会想到我吗? 常常 但是不会想到要回来 我有回来,每次都回来了,怎么了? 没什么 波尔找到新对象了,准备和我离婚,我以为我们也会 离婚了? 结不结婚有这么大的区别吗 我希望有个属于我的人 不,你不会的 结婚到底有什么不好 你看过有成功的例子了吗 有,很多,贝尔就是一例 他在1910年雨季的时候送她回娘家1913年才告诉她婚姻结束了这不是笑话,大家都结婚,这又不是什么新发明,有许多动物相守一辈子 鹅 你争论的时候就会拿动物来举例我要用就不行 我会守着我的伴侣一天一天过下去 我只想有人向我求一次婚,如此而已

如果我保证拒绝你,你肯不肯问一次? 相信你么? 当你离开,并不是每次都去狩猎,对不对? 你说的对 只是想离开 我不想让你难过 我是难过 我和你在一起是我的选择,我不想按照别人的想法来过生活,不要勉强我 我不希望有一天发现自己是在为了别人活,我愿意承担后果,就算偶尔寂寞甚至孤独而终,我都能接受。 不是这样,你是强迫我付出代价 不,你有权选择,而且你不愿意为我牺牲 我不会因为一张纸和你更亲近或更爱你 农场招灾后,终于盼回了丹尼斯 你有扣子吗? 你在干嘛 帮你缝扣子 不用,不要那样做,你不需要那样做 也许我后天要去撒布拉 你才回来 菲丽丝要求和我一起去,我打算拒绝她,因为知道你会不高兴,

盘点中国建国以来外交部女发言人(组图)

盘点中国建国以来外交部女发言人(组图) 盘点中国建国以来外交部女发言人(组图) 这是一个特殊的群体,她们以自己独特的思维力量与语言风格,诠释着中国国策。面对中外记者的“刁招”、“怪招”、“险招”……她们沉着应对,智解妙答,使自己也成为充满神秘与峰回路转的风景,她们便是中国外交部的女发言人。中国外交部发言人制度建立以来,到目前为止,一共产生了5位女发言人,这“五朵金花”分别是李金华、范慧娟、章启月、姜瑜和华春莹。 华春莹,女,1970年4月生,江苏人,大学本科毕业。 外交部新闻司司长秦刚16日宣布,新闻司副司长华春莹任外交部新发言人,下周一她将首次主持外交部例行发布会。秦刚介绍说,华春莹从事外交工作20年,曾在欧洲司以及欧洲和亚洲地区工作,有着丰富外交经验和良好沟通能力。“美”、“漂亮”、“气质好”,是网友评价华春莹时用得最多的词汇。 第一位女发言人——李金华 李金华1932年9月生于山东省济南市,自小在天津长

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