1995 乔布斯：遗失的访谈(英文节选)

你必须找到自己所钟爱的东西You've got to find what you love乔布斯在斯坦福大学的演讲（节选）乔布斯二十岁的时候在父母的车库里创立了苹果公司，十年后，苹果成为一个超过四千名的雇员、价值超过二十亿的大公司。

在30岁的时候，乔布斯因为管理问题被公司炒了鱿鱼。

在经过几个月的沮丧之后，他发现自己仍然喜爱所从事的东西，并决定重头再来，他做到了。

离开后，他创立了NeXT和Pixar, 然后和妻子相识，最终重新回到苹果公司。

以下节选了乔布斯于2005年6月12号在斯坦福大学的毕业典礼上面的演讲，他坦白了被苹果解雇后的心路历程。

当我们面对挫折和失败时，只有坚持自己所爱的事情，才有力量坚持下去。

I was a very public failure, and I even thought about running away from the valley. But something slowly began to dawn on me – I still loved what I did. The turnof events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I had been rejected, but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over.我把事情弄得糟糕透顶了。

但是我渐渐发现了曙光, 我仍然喜爱我从事的这些东西。

苹果公司发生的这些事情丝毫的没有改变这些, 一点也没有。

我被驱逐了,但是我仍然钟爱它。

所以我决定从头再来。

I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods of my life.我当时没有觉察, 但是事后证明, 从苹果公司被炒是我这辈子发生的最棒的事情。

I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories.The first story is about connecting the dots.It dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out?It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed college graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very strongly that I should be adopted by college graduates, so everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife. Except that when I popped out they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night asking: "We have an unexpected baby boy; do you want him?" They said: "Of course." My biological mother later found out that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never graduated from high school. She refused to sign the final adoption papers. She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I would someday go to college.And 17 years later I did go to college. But I naively chose a college that was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it. I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life and no idea how college was going to help me figure it out. And here I was spending all of the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the time, but looking back it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out I could stop taking the required classes that didn't interest me, and begin dropping in on the ones that looked interesting.It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms, I returned coke bottles for the 5￠deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the 7 miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on. Let me give you one example:Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer, was beautifully hand calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't have to take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out, I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later.Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward; you can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that the dots will somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something — your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever. This approach has never let me down, and it has made all the difference in my life.Stay Hungry. Stay Foolish.Thank you all very much。

Following is a transcript of the interview Kara Swisher and Walt Mossberg conducted with Microsoft Chairman Bill Gates and Apple CEO Steve Jobs at the D5 conference on May 30, 2007.[Video plays]Kara: Well, thank you.Walt: Before we get started, there were some pioneers–of course, we have the pioneers here on the stage, but there were some other really important pioneers in the video we just saw and a couple of them are here in the audience. Mitch Kapor, who is a regular, could you just stand up, wherever you are? There he is. [Applause]Walt: And Fred Gibbons, who has not come to D before, but is here tonight. Fred. There’s Fred right there.[Applause]Walt: And I don’t know if he’s in the room, but I do want to recognize our fellow journalist, Brent Schlender from Fortune, who, to my knowledge, did the last joint interview these guys did. It was not onstage, but it was Fortune magazine. Brent, I don’t know if you’re in the room. If you are, can you stand? Maybe he’s way over there.[Applause]Kara: So let’s get started. I wanted to ask, there’s been a lot of mano‐a‐mano/catfight kind of thing in a lot of the blogs and the press and stuff like that, and we wanted to–the first question I was interested in asking is what you think each has contributed to the computer and technology industry, starting with you, Steve, for Bill, and vice versa.Steve: Well, you know, Bill built the first software company in the industry and I think he built the first software company before anybody really in our industry knew what a software company was, except for these guys. And that was huge. That was really huge. And the business model that they ended up pursuing turned out to be the one that worked really well, you know, for the industry. I think the biggest thing was, Bill was really focused on software before almost anybody else had a clue that it was really the software.Kara: Was important?Steve: That’s what I see. I mean, a lot of other things you could say, but that’s the high order bit. And I think building a company’s really hard, and it requires your greatest persuasive abilities to hire the best people you can and keep them at your company and keep them working, doing the best work of their lives, hopefully. And Bill’s been able to stay with it for all these years.Walt: Bill, how about the contribution of Steve and Apple?Bill: Well, first, I want to clarify: I’m not Fake Steve Jobs.What Steve’s done is quite phenomenal, and if you look back to 1977, that Apple II computer, the idea that it would be a mass‐market machine, you know, the bet that was made there by Apple uniquely–there were other people with products, but the idea that this could be an incredible empowering phenomenon, Apple pursued that dream.Then one of the most fun things we did was the Macintosh and that was so risky. People may not remember that Apple really bet the company. Lisa hadn’t done that well, and some people were saying that general approach wasn’t good, but the team that Steve built even within the company to pursue that, even some days it felt a little ahead of its time–I don’t know if you remember that Twiggy disk drive and…Steve: One hundred twenty‐eight K.Kara: Oh, the Twiggy disk drive, yes.Bill: Steve gave a speech once, which is one of my favorites, where he talked about, in a certain sense, we build the products that we want to use ourselves. And so he’s really pursued that with incredible taste and elegance that has had a huge impact on the industry. And his ability to always come around and figureout where that next bet should be has been phenomenal. Apple literally was failing when Steve went back and re‐infused the innovation and risk‐taking that have been phenomenal. So the industry’s benefited immensely from his work. We’ve both been lucky to be part of it, but I’d say he’s contributed as much as anyone.Steve: We’ve also both been incredibly lucky to have had great partners that we started the companies with and we’ve attracted great people. I mean, so everything that’s been done at Microsoft and at Apple has been done by just remarkable people, none of which are sitting up here today.Kara: Well, not us.Walt: Not us. So in a way, you’re the stand‐ins for all those other people.Steve: Yeah, in a way, we are. In a very tangible way.Walt: So Bill mentioned the Apple II and 1977 and 30 years ago. And there werea couple of other computers which were aimed at the idea that average people might be able to use them, and looking back on it, a really average‐averageperson might not have been able to use them by today’s standards, but itcertainly broadened the base of who could use computers.I actually looked at an Apple ad from 1978. It was a print ad. That shows youhow ancient it was. And it said, thousands of people have discovered the Apple computer. Thousands of people. And it also said, you don’t want to buy one of these computers where you put a cartridge in. I think that was a reference to oneof the Atari or something.Steve: Oh, no.Walt: You want a computer you can write your own programs on. And obviously, people still do.Steve: We had some very strange ads back then. We had one where it was in a kitchen and there was a woman that looked like the wife and she was typing in recipes on the computer with the husband looking on approvingly in the back.Stuff like that.Walt: How did that work for you?Steve: I don’t think well.Walt: I know you started Microsoft prior to 1977. I think Apple started the year before, in ‘76.Steve: ‘76.Walt: Microsoft in …Bill: ‘74 was when we started writing BASIC. Then we shipped the BASIC in ‘75.Walt: Some people here, but I don’t think most people, know that there was actually some Microsoft software in that Apple II computer. You want to talkabout what happened there, how that occurred?Bill: Yeah. There had been the Altair and a few other companies–actually, about24–that had done various machines, but the ‘77 group included the PET, TRS‐80 …Walt: Commodore?Bill: Yeah, the Commodore PET, TRS‐80 and the Apple II. The original Apple II BASIC, the Integer BASIC, we had nothing to do with. But then there was afloating‐point one where–and I mostly worked with Woz on that.Steve: Let me tell the story. My partner we started out with, this guy named SteveWozniak. Brilliant, brilliant guy. He writes this BASIC that is, like, the best BASICon the planet. It does stuff that no other BASIC’s ever done. You don’t have to runit to find your error messages. It finds them when you type it in and stuff. It’s perfect in every way, except for one thing, which is it’s just fixed‐point, right? It’s not floating‐point.So we’re getting a lot of input that people want this BASIC to be floating‐point. And, like, we’re begging Woz, please, please make this floating point.Walt: Who’s we? How many people are in Apple?Steve: Well, me. We’re begging Woz to make this floating‐point and he just never does it. You know, and he wrote it by hand on paper. I mean, you know, he didn’t have an assembler or anything to write it with. It was all just written on paperand he’d type it in. He just never got around to making it floating‐point.Kara: Why?Steve: This is one of the mysteries of life. I don’t know, but he never did. So, you know, Microsoft had this very popular, really good floating‐point BASIC that we ended up going to them and saying “help.”Walt: And how much was the–I think you were telling us earlier …Bill: Oh, it was $31,000.Walt: That Apple paid you for the …Bill: For the floating‐point BASIC. And I flew out to Apple, I spent two days there getting the cassette. The cassette tapes were the main ways that people stored things at the time, right? And, you know, that was fun.I think the most fun is later when we worked together.Walt: What was the most fun? Tell the story about the most fun that was later.Kara: Or maybe later, not the most fun.Walt: Let them talk.Kara: Teasing.Bill: Well, you know, Steve can probably start it better. The team that was assembled there to do the Macintosh was a very committed team. And there wasan equivalent team on our side that just got totally focused on this activity. Jeff Harbers, a lot of incredible people. And we had really bet our future on the Macintosh being successful, and then, hopefully, graphics interfaces in generalbeing successful, but first and foremost, the thing that would popularize that being the Macintosh.So we were working together. The schedules were uncertain. The quality was uncertain. The price. When Steve first came up, it was going to be a lot cheaper computer than it ended up being, but that was fine.Kara: So you worked in both places?Bill: Well, we were in Seattle and we’d fly down there.Walt: But Microsoft, if I remember correctly from what I’ve read, wasn’t Microsoft one of the few companies that were allowed to even have a prototype of the Mac at the time?Steve: Yeah. What’s interesting, what’s hard to remember now is that Microsoft wasn’t in the applications business then. They took a big bet on the Mac because this is how they got into the apps business. Lotus dominated the apps business on the PC back then.Bill: Right. We’d done just MultiPlan, which was a hit on the Apple II, and then Mitch did an incredible job betting on the IBM PC and 1‐2‐3 came in and, you know, ruled that part of the business. So the question was, what was the next paradigm shift that would allow for an entry? We had Word, but WordPerfect was by far the strongest in word processing dBase database.Walt: And Word was kind of a DOS text …Bill: All of these products I’m saying were DOS‐based products.Walt: Right.Bill: Because Windows wasn’t in the picture at the time.Walt: Right.Bill: That’s more early ’90s that we get to that. So we made this bet that the paradigm shift would be graphics interface and, in particular, that the Macintosh would make that happen with 128K of memory, 22K of which was for the screen buffer, 14K was for the operating system. So it was …Walt: 14K?Bill: Yeah.Walt: The original Mac operating system was 14K?Bill: 14K that we had to have loaded when our software ran. So when the shell would come up, it had all the 128K.Steve: The OS was bigger than 14K. It was in the 20s somewhere.Walt: I see.Steve: We ship these computers now with, you know, a gigabyte, 2 gigabytes of memory, and nobody remembers 128K.Walt: I remember that. I remember paying a lot of money for computers with 128K in those days. So the two companies worked closely on the Mac project because you were maybe not the only, but the principal or one of the principal software creators for it, is that right?Steve: Well, Apple did the Mac itself, but we got Bill and his team involved to write these applications. We were doing a few apps ourselves. We did MacPaint, MacDraw and stuff like that, but Bill and his team did some great work.Kara: Now, in terms of moving forward after you left and your company grew more and more strong, what did you think was going to happen to Apple after sort of the disasters that occurred after Steve left?Bill: Well, Apple, they hung in the balance. We continued to do Macintosh software. Excel, which Steve and I introduced together in New York City, thatwas kind of a fun event, that went on and did very well. But then, you know, Apple just wasn’t differentiating itself well enough from the higher‐volume platform.Walt: Meaning Windows, right?Bill: DOS and Windows.Walt: OK. But especially Windows in the ’90s began to take off.Bill: By 1995, Windows became popular. The big debate wasn’t sort of Mac versus Windows. The big debate was character mode interface versus graphics mode interface. And when the 386 came and we got more memory and the speed was adequate and some development tools came along, that paradigm bet on GUI paid off for everybody who’d gotten in early and said, you know, this is the way that’s going to go.Walt: But Apple wasn’t able to leverage its products? Bill: After the 512K Mac was done, the product line just didn’t evolve as fast– Steve wasn’t there–as it needed to. And we were actually negotiating a deal to invest and make some commitments and things with Gil Amelio. No, seriously.Kara: Don’t be mean to him.Bill: I’m sorry?Kara: Just saying the word Gil Amelio, you can see his…Bill: So I was calling him up on the weekend and all this stuff and next thing I knew, Steve called me up and said, “Don’t worry about that negotiation with Gil Amelio. You can just talk to me now.” And I said, “Wow.”Steve: Gil was a nice guy, but he had a saying. He said, “Apple is like a ship with a hole in the bottom leaking water and my job is to get the ship pointed in the right direction.”Walt: Meanwhile, through all this–I want to get back to the thing we saw in 1997 at Macworld there–but Windows was just going great guns. I mean, Windows 95, to whatever extent earlier versions of Windows had not had all the features, all the GUI stuff that the Mac had, and Windows 95 really was an enormous, enormous leap.Bill: Yeah. Windows 95 is when graphics interface became mainstream and when the software industry realized, wow, this is the way applications are going to be done. And it was amazing that it was ridiculed sort of in ‘93, ‘94, was not mainstream, and then in ‘95, the debate was over. It was kind of just a commonsense thing. And it was a combination of hardware and software maturity getting to a point that people could see it.Walt: So I don’t want to go through every detail, the whole history of how you came back, but…Steve: Thank you.Walt: But you in that video we all saw, you said you had decided that it was destructive to have this competition with Microsoft. Now, obviously, Apple wasin a lot of trouble and I presume that there was some tactical or strategic reason for that, as well as just wanting to be a nice guy, right?Steve: You know, Apple was in very serious trouble. And what was really clear was that if the game was a zero‐sum game where for Apple to win, Microsoft had to lose, then Apple was going to lose. But a lot of people’s heads were still in that place.Kara: Why was that, from your perspective?Steve: Well, a lot of people’s heads were in that place at Apple and even in the customer base because, you know, Apple had invented a lot of this stuff andMicrosoft was being successful and Apple wasn’t and there was jealousy and this and that. There was just a lot of reasons for it that don’t matter.But the net result of it was, was there were too many people at Apple and in the Apple ecosystem playing the game of, for Apple to win, Microsoft has to lose. And it was clear that you didn’t have to play that game because Apple wasn’t going to beat Microsoft. Apple didn’t have to beat Microsoft. Apple had to remember who Apple was because they’d forgotten who Apple was.So to me, it was pretty essential to break that paradigm. And it was also important that, you know, Microsoft was the biggest software developer outside of Apple developing for the Mac. So it was just crazy what was happening at that time. And Apple was very weak and so I called Bill up and we tried to patch things up.Bill: And since that time, we’ve had a team that’s fairly dedicated to doing the Mac applications and they’ve always been treated kind of in a unique way so that they can have a pretty special relationship with Apple. And that’s worked out very well. In fact, every couple years or so, there’s been something new that we’ve been able to do on the Mac and it’s been a great business for us.Steve: And it’s actually–the relationship between the Mac development team at Microsoft and Apple is a great relationship. It’s one of our best developer relationships.Kara: And do you look at yourselves as rivals now? Today as the landscape has evolved–and we’ll talk about the Internet landscape and everything else and other companies that have [gone] forward, but how do you look at yourselves in this landscape today?Walt:Because, I mean, you are competitors in certain ways, which is the American way, right?Kara: We watch the commercials, right?Walt: And you get annoyed at each other from time to time.Kara: Although you know what? I have to confess, I like PC guy.Walt: Yeah, he’s great.Kara: Yeah, I like him. The young guy, I want to pop him.Steve: The art of those commercials is not to be mean, but it’s actually for theguys to like each other. Thanks. PC guy is great. Got a big heart.Bill: His mother loves him.Steve: His mother loves him.Kara: I’m telling you, I like PC guy totally much better.Steve: Wow.Kara: I do. I don’t know why. He’s endearing. The other guy’s a jackass.Steve: PC guy’s what makes it all work, actually.Walt: All right.Steve: It’s worth thinking about.Kara: So how do you look at yourselves?Walt: I mean, let me just ask you, Bill. Obviously, Microsoft is a much larger company, you’re in many more markets, many more types of products than Apple is. You know, when you were running the company or when Steve Ballmer is running the company, you think obviously about Google, you think about, I don’t know, Linux in the enterprise, you think about Sony in the game area. How often is Apple on your radar screen at Microsoft in a business sense?Bill: Well, they’re on the radar screen as an opportunity. In a few cases like the Zune, if you go over to that group, they think of Apple as a competitor. They love the fact that Apple’s created a gigantic market and they’re going to try and come in and contribute something to that.Steve: And we love them because they’re all customers.Walt: I have to tell you, I was actually told by J Allard, I’m serious, that because of the nature of the processor, the development platform they used to develop a lot of the software for the Xbox 360 was Macs. And he claimed that at one point, they had, like, placed the biggest order for whatever the Mac tower was at the time of anybody, and it was Microsoft.Bill: I don’t know if it was the biggest, but, yeah, we had the same processor essentially that the Mac had. This is one of those great ironies is they were switching away from that processor while the Xbox 360 was adopting it. But for good reasons, actually, in both cases. Because we’re not in a portable applicationand that was one of the things that that processor road map didn’t have. But yes,it shows pragmatism, but we try and do things that way. So that was the development system for the early people getting their software ready for the introduction of Xbox 360.Steve: And we never ran an ad on that.Walt: I see. Admirable restraint. That’s wonderful restraint.Steve: There were hundreds of them.Bill: Steve is so known for his restraint.Kara: How do you look at Microsoft from an Apple perspective? I mean, you compete in computers and…Walt: I mean, you can say you don’t compete, you know, the era of destructive whatever, whatever you said in 1997, but you think–you’re consciously aware of what they’re doing with Windows, you followed Vista closely, I think.Steve: You know, what’s really interesting is–and we talked about this earlier today–if you look at the reason that the iPod exists and the Apple’s in that marketplace, it’s because these really great Japanese consumer electronics companies who kind of own the portable music market, invented it and owned it, couldn’t do the appropriate software, couldn’t conceive of and implement the appropriate software. Because an iPod’s really just software. It’s software in the iPod itself, it’s software on the PC or the Mac, and it’s software in the cloud forthe store. And it’s in a beautiful box, but it’s software. If you look at what a Mac is, it’s OS X, right? It’s in a beautiful box, but it’s OS X. And if you look at what an iPhone will hopefully be, it’s software.And so the big secret about Apple, of course–not‐so‐big secret maybe–is that Apple views itself as a software company and there aren’t very many software companies left, and Microsoft is a software company. And so, you know, we look at what they do and we think some of it’s really great, and we think a little bit of it’s competitive and most of it’s not. You know, we don’t have a belief that the Mac is going to take over 80% of the PC market. You know, we’re really happy when our market share goes up a point and we love that and we work real hardat it, but Apple’s fundamentally a software company and there’s not a lot of usleft and Microsoft’s one of them.Walt: But you may be fundamentally a software company, but you’ve been known, at least to your customers and to most journalists as the company thatkind of pays a lot of attention to integrating software and hardware. Microsofthas made some recent moves to be a little more like that, obviously not in yourcore biggest businesses, but with Xbox and Zune and, you know, the Surface computing device we saw today is another example. These aren’t markets thathold up in size to Windows or Office, but they’re some of your more recent initiatives. Are the companies’ approaches to this merging a little or …Steve: Alan Kay had a great quote back in the ’70s, I think. He said, “People thatlove software want to build their own hardware.”Walt: Well, Bill loves software.Steve: Oh, I can resist that.Bill: The question is, are there markets where the innovation and variety you getis a net positive? The negative is that in the early stage, you really want to do thetwo together so you want to do prototyping and things like that, you know, reallyas one thing.And then take the phone market. We think we’re on 140 different kinds of hardware. We think it’s beneficial to us that even if we did a few ourselves, it wouldn’t give us what we have through those partnerships.Likewise, if you take the robotics market, very undeveloped. We have over 140tiny‐volume robots using Microsoft software. And the creativity, building toys, security things, medical things, we love the innovation and the ecosystem that’sgoing to grow up–who knows when, but we’re patient–around that and we’llhave a great asset with this robotic software platform.So there are things like PC, phone, and robot where the Microsoft choice is to gofor the variety.Apple, it’s great. For them, they do what works super well for them. And there’s afew markets like Xbox 360, Zune, and this year we have two new ones, theSurface thing and this RoundTable, which is the meeting‐room thing, where we’ll actually, through subcontractors, but the P&L on the risk and all that for the hardware, the design is completely a Microsoft thing.Walt: The RoundTable: Is that something you’ve announced or were you just announcing it here?Bill: We’ve shown prototypes of it. That’s the thing where it’s got the 360‐degree …Walt: Oh, right. It’s like Cisco has something in that market and HP too, right?Bill: Oh, HP has a very high‐end thing that’s a tiny bit like it, but anyway.Walt: All right. Do you ever regret–was there something you might have wanted to do differently? And maybe you feel like this happened after you left Apple, something you might have done differently where you could have had a much bigger market share for the Mac?Steve: Well, before I answer that, let me make a comment on Bill’s answer there, which is, it’s very interesting, in the consumer market and the enterprise market, they’re very different spaces. And in the consumer market, at least, I think one can make a pretty strong case that outside of Windows on PCs, it’s hard to see other examples of the software and hardware being decoupled working super well yet. It might in the phone space over time. It might. But it’s not clear. It’s not clear. You can see a lot more examples of the hardware/software coupling working well.So I think this is one of the reasons we all, you know, come to work every day is because nobody knows the answers to some of these questions. And we’ll find out over the coming years and maybe both will work fine and maybe they won’t.Walt: Yeah.Steve: Yeah. It’s good to try both approaches. In some product categories–take music players–the solo design worked better. In the PC market, the variety of designs at this stage has a higher share.Walt: It has a higher share? It has a lot higher share.Steve: It’s not that much different than music players the other way around.Walt: Is there some moment you feel like I should have done this or Apple should have done that, and we could have had …Kara: You stuck to this idea of the hardware/software integration and it’s working very well right now.Steve: There’s a lot of things that happened that I’m sure I could have done better when I was at a Apple the first time and a lot of things that happened after I left that I thought were wrong turns, but it doesn’t matter. It really doesn’t matter and you kind of got to let go of that stuff and we are where we are. So we tend to look forward.And, you know, one of the things I did when I got back to Apple 10 years ago wasI gave the museum to Stanford and all the papers and all the old machines and kind of cleared out the cobwebs and said, let’s stop looking backwards here. It’sall about what happens tomorrow. Because you can’t look back and say, well, gosh, you know, I wish I hadn’t have gotten fired, I wish I was there, I wish this, I wish that. It doesn’t matter. And so let’s go invent tomorrow rather than worrying about what happened yesterday.Kara: We’re going to talk a little bit tomorrow, but let’s talk about today, the landscape of how you see the different players in the market and how you look at what’s developing now. What has surprised both of you since having been around for so long, and still very active and everything, and your companies are still critically key companies? There are many, many companies that are becoming quite powerful. How do you look at the landscape at this moment and what’s happening especially in the Internet space?Steve: I think it’s super healthy right now. I think there’s a lot of young peopleout there building some great companies who want to build companies, who aren’t just interested in starting something and selling it to one of the big guys, but who want to build companies. And I think there’s some real exciting companies getting built out there. Some next‐generation stuff that, you know, some of us play catch‐up with and, you know, some of us find ways to partner with and things like that, but there’s a lot of activity out there now, wouldn’t you say?Bill: Yeah, I’d say it’s a healthy period. The notion of what the new form factors look like, what natural interface can do, the ability to use the cloud, the Internet, to do part of the task in a complementary way to the local experience, there’s alot of invention that the whole approach of start‐ups, the existing companies who do research, we’ll look back at this as one of the great periods of invention.Steve: I think so, too. There’s a lot of things that are risky right now, which is always a good sign, you know, and you can see through them, you can see to the other side and go, yes, this could be huge, but there’s a period of risk that, you know, nobody’s ever done it before.Kara: Do you have an example?Steve: I do, but I can’t say.Kara: OK.Steve: But I can say, when you feel like that, that’s a great thing.Kara: Right.。

乔布斯演讲稿——你必须找到你所爱的东西史蒂夫·乔布斯（1955-2011），发明家、企业家、美国苹果公司联合创办人、前行政总裁。

下面是店铺小编为您整理的乔布斯演讲稿——你必须找到你所爱的东西，欢迎阅读！乔布斯演讲稿——你必须找到你所爱的东西'You've got to find what you love,' Jobs saysThis is the text of the Commencement address by Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple Computer and of Pixar Animation Studios, delivered on June 12, 2005.你必须要找到你所爱的东西I am honored to be with you today at your commencement from one of the finest universities in the world. I never graduated from college. Truth be told, this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college graduation. Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories.很荣幸和大家一道参加这所世界上最好的一座大学的毕业典礼。

我大学没毕业，说实话，这是我第一次离大学毕业典礼这么近。

今天我想给大家讲三个我自己的故事，不讲别的，也不讲大道理，就讲三个故事。

The first story is about connecting the dots. I dropped out of Reed College after the first 6 months, but then stayed around as a drop-in for another 18 months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out?第一个故事讲的是点与点之间的关系。

史蒂夫•乔布斯（1955-2011）10月5日，星期三，史蒂夫•乔布斯与世长辞，享年56岁。

乔布斯永远地改变了我们认知科技、应用科技的方式，在横跨个人电脑到音乐产业的广泛领域都打上自己鲜明的烙印。

在此，《财富》杂志（Fortune）将逐一回顾他留给我们的10大遗产。

Steve Jobs (1955-2011)Steve Jobs passed away Wednesday, Oct. 5 at age 56. Fortune looks back at how he changed the way we think about and use technology forever, putting his own stamp on everything from the personal computer to the music industry.设计在史蒂夫眼中，产品的外观、手感和操作远远超过纯粹的技术规格。

PC制造商还在追逐更快的处理器速度，而乔布斯却在追求更加智能、简单灵巧的设计。

苹果公司（Apple）一位前任员工回忆起乔布斯曾经有一次在公司召开的会议上认真思索Mini Cooper 的魅力所在。

（他的一位同事当时正在销售这款汽车。

）他回忆道：“最后，他得出的结论是，这款汽车之所以炫酷出众，正是因为它小巧玲珑。

史蒂夫认为，当时正是苹果公司充分利用金属材料的最佳时机。

当时，大部分电脑制造商仍在使用塑料，但他认为，要想使电脑更加小巧，必须很好地利用金属材料。

”这一举措最终带来了回报：苹果公司的钛铝合金笔记本电脑备受追捧。

最近推出的MacBook Air型号笔记本也被视为设计、价格与性能三者完美结合的典范。

DesignFor Jobs, how a product looked, felt and responded trumped raw technical specifications. While PC makers chased after faster processor speeds, Jobs pursued clever, minimalist design.One ex-Apple employee remembers sitting in a meeting with Jobs, who was mulling over the appeal of Mini Coopers. (An old coworker of his sold them at the time.)"He finally decided they were cool because they were small," he says. "Steve said that's when he knew Apple had to get really good at metal. Most computer makers at the time were all using plastic, but he knew to get smaller, you had to get metal really, really well."The move paid off: Apple's titanium-turned-aluminum notebooks became bestsellers. The most recent MacBook Air models have been held up as examples of the ideal intersection of design, price and performance.音乐进入新千年以来，音乐产业迅速向数字内容传递方式转变，上百万用户通过Napster等在线音乐服务网站非法下载音乐，这种混乱局面使得音乐出版公司MusicThe new millennium was all about a rapid shift to digital content delivery, a disruption that sent music publishers scrambling to preserve their疲于应付，只能在日益调低底线的痛苦中苦苦挣扎。

英文采访乔布斯作文对于采访乔布斯这样的重要人物，我感到非常激动。

下面我将用英文和中文回答问题。

英文：Interviewer: What do you think is the key to your success?乔布斯: Well, I believe the key to my success is a combination of passion, perseverance, and innovation. I have always been passionate about creating products that truly make a difference in people's lives. I never gave up, even when faced with challenges and setbacks. And I always strived to think outside the box and come up with innovative solutions to problems.Interviewer: Can you give an example of a time when you faced a major challenge and how you overcame it?乔布斯: One of the biggest challenges I faced was whenI was ousted from Apple in 1985. It was a very difficult time for me, but instead of giving up, I used that setback as motivation to start a new company, NeXT, and later Pixar. These experiences ultimately made me a better leader and innovator when I returned to Apple.中文：采访者，你认为成功的关键是什么？乔布斯，我认为成功的关键是激情、毅力和创新的结合。

乔布斯传记精选英语段落乔布斯传记精选英语段落1：Jobs had formed a club at Homestead High to put on music-and-light shows andalso play pranks. (They once glued a gold-painted toilet seat onto a flower planter.) Itwas called the Buck Fry Club, a play on the name of the principal. Even though they hadalready graduated, Wozniak and his friend Allen Baum joined forces with Jobs, at theend of his junior year, to produce a farewell gesture for the departing seniors. Showingoff the Homestead campus four decades later, Jobs paused at the scene of the escapadeand pointed. See that balcony? That s where we did the banner prank that sealed ourfriendship. On a big bedsheet Baum had tie-dyed with the school s green and whitecolors, they painted a huge hand flipping the middle-finger salute. Baum s nice Jewishmother helped them draw it and showed them how to do the shading and shadows tomake it look more real. I know what that is, she snickered. They devised a system ofropes and pulleys so that it could be dramatically lowered as the graduating classmarched past the balcony, and they signed it SWAB JOB, the initials of Wozniak andBaum combined with part of Jobs s name. The prank became part of school lore andgot Jobs suspended one more time.乔布斯传记精选英语段落2：As soon as Jobs got the call from Wozniak that Sunday afternoon, he knew theywould have to get their hands on the technical journal right away. Woz picked me upa few minutes later, and we went to the library at SLAC [the Stanford Linear AcceleratorCenter] to see if we could find it, Jobs recounted. It was Sunday and the library wasclosed, but they knew how to get in through a door that was rarely locked. Iremember that we were furiously digging through the stacks, and it was Woz who finallyfound the journal with all the frequencies. It was like, holy shit, and we opened it andthere it was. We kept saying to ourselves, It s real. Holy shit, it s real. It was all laidout the tones, the frequencies.乔布斯传记精选英语段落3：Jobs s craziness was of the cultivated sort. He had begun his lifelong experimentswith compulsive diets, eating only fruits and vegetables, so he was as lean and tight as awhippet. He learned to stare at people without blinking, and he perfected long silencespunctuated by staccato bursts of fast talking. This odd mix of intensity and aloofness,combined with his shoulder-length hair and scraggly beard, gave him the aura of acrazed shaman. He oscillated between charismatic and creepy. He shuffled around andlooked half-mad, recalled Brennan. He had a lot of angst. It was like a big darknessaround him.乔布斯传记精选英语段落4：Seventeen years earlier, Jobs s parents had made a pledge when they adoptedhim: He would go to college. So they had worked hard and saved dutifully for hiscollege fund, which was modest but adequate by the time he graduated. But Jobs,becoming ever more willful, did not make it easy. At first he toyed with not going tocollege at all. I think I might have headed to New York if I didn t go to college, herecalled, musing on how different his world and perhaps all of ours might have beenif he had chosen that path. When his parents pushed him to go to college, he respondedin a passive-aggressive way. He did not consider state schools, such as Berkeley, whereWoz then was, despite the fact that they were more affordable. Nor did he look atStanford, just up the road and likely to offer a scholarship. The kids who went toStanford, they already knew what they wanted to do, he said. They weren t reallyartistic. I wanted something that was more artistic and interesting.乔布斯传记精选英语段落5：In February 1974, after eighteen months of hanging around Reed, Jobs decided tomove back to his parents home in Los Altos and look for a job. It was not a difficultsearch. At peak times during the 1970s, the classified section of the San Jose Mercurycarried up to sixty pages of technology help-wanted ads. One of those caught Jobs seye. Have fun, make money, it said. That day Jobs walked into the lobby of the videogame manufacturer Atari and told the personnel director, who was startled by hisunkempt hair and attire,that he wouldn t leave until they gave him a job.。

Thank you. I'm honored to be wh you today for your commencement from of the finest universities in the world. Truth be told, I never graduated from college and this is the closest I've ever gotten to a college g r a d u a t i o n.Today I want to tell you three stories from my life. That's it. No big deal. Just three stories. The first story is about connecting the dots.I dropped out of Reed College after the first six months but then stayed around as a drop-in for an eighteen months or so before I really quit. So why did I drop out It started before I was born. My biological mother was a young, unwed graduate student, and she decided to put me up for adoption. She felt very strongly that I be adopted by college graduates, so everything was all set for me to be adopted at birth by a lawyer and his wife, except that when I popped out, they decided at the last minute that they really wanted a girl. So my parents, who were on a waiting list, got a call in the middle of the night asking, "We've got an unexpected baby boy. Do you want him" They said, "Of course." My biological mother found out later that my mother had never graduated from college and that my father had never graduated from high school. She ref sign the final adoption papers. She only relented a few months later when my parents promised that I go to college.This was the start in my life. And seventeen years later, I did go to college, but I na?vely chose a college that was almost as expensive as Stanford, and all of my working-class parents' savings were being spent on my college tuition. After six months, I couldn't see the value in it.I had no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and no idea of how college was going to help me figure it out, and here I was, spending all the money my parents had saved their entire life. So I decided to drop out and trust that it would all work out OK. It was pretty scary at the time, but looking back, it was one of the best decisions I ever made. The minute I dropped out, I could stop taking the required classes that didn't interest me and begin dropping in on the ones that looked far more interesting.It wasn't all romantic. I didn't have a dorm room, so I slept on the floor in friends' rooms. I returned Coke bottles for the five-cent deposits to buy food with, and I would walk the seven miles across town every Sunday night to get one good meal a week at the Hare Krishna temple. I loved it. And much of what I stumbled into by following my curiosity and intuition turned out to be priceless later on. Let me give you one example.Reed College at that time offered perhaps the best calligraphy instruction in the country. Throughout the campus every poster, every label on every drawer was beautifully hand-calligraphed. Because I had dropped out and didn't take the normal classes, I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and sans-serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me, and we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts, and since Windows just copied the Mac, it's likely that no personal computer would have them.If I had never dropped out, I would have never dropped in on that calligraphy class and personals computers not have the wonderful typography that they do.Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college, but it was very, very clear looking backwards 10 years later. Again, you can't connect the dots looking forward. You can only connect them looking backwards, so you have to trust that the dots somehow connect in your future. You have to trust in something--your gut, destiny, life, karma, whatever--because believing that the dots will connect down the road will give you the confidence to follow your heart, even when it leads you off the well-worn path, and that will make all the difference.My second story is about love and loss. I was lucky. I found what I loved to do early in life. Woz and I started Apple in my parents' garage when I was twenty. We worked hard and in ten years, Apple had grown from just the two of us in a garage into a $2 billion company with over 4,000 employees. We'd just released our finest creation, the Macintosh, a year earlier, and I'd just turned thirty, and then I got fired. How can you get fired from a company you started Well, as Apple grew, we hired someone who I thought was very talented to run the company with me, and for the first year or so, things went well. But then our visions of the future began to diverge, and eventually we had a falling out. When we did, our board of directors sided with him, and so at thirty, I was out, and very publicly out. What had been the focus of my entire adult life was gone, and it was devastating. I really didn't know what to do for a few months.I felt that I had let the previous generation of entrepreneurs down, that I had dropped the baton as it was being passed to me. I met with David Packard and Bob Noyce and tried to apologize for screwing up so badly.I was a very public failure and I even thought about running away from the Valley. But something slowly began to dawn on me. I still loved what I did. The turn of events at Apple had not changed that one bit. I'd been rejected but I was still in love. And so I decided to start over.I didn't see it then, but it turned out that getting fired from Apple was the best thing that could have ever happened to me. The heaviness of being successful was replaced by the lightness of being a beginner again, less sure about everything. It freed me to enter one of the most creative periods in my life. During the next five years I started a company named NeXT, another company named Pixar and fell in love with an amazing woman who would become my wife. Pixar went on to create the world's first computer-animated feature film, "Toy Story," and is now the most successful animation studio in the world.In a remarkable turn of events, Apple bought NeXT and I returned to Apple and the technology we developed at NeXT is at the heart of Apple's current renaissance, and Lorene and I have a wonderful family together.I'm pretty sure none of this would have happened if I hadn't been fired from Apple. It was awful-tasting medicine but I guess the patient ed it. Sometimes life's going to hit you in the head with a brick. Don't lose faith. I'm convinced that the only thing that kept me going was that I loved what I did. You've got to find what you love, and that is as true for work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work, and the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven't found it yet, keep looking, and don't settle. As with all matters of the heart, you'll know when you find it, and like any great relationship it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking. Don't settle.My third story is about . When I was 17 I read a quote that went something like "If you live each day as if it was your last, someday you'll most certainly be right." It made an impression on me, and since then, for the past 33 years, I have looked in the mirror every morning and asked myself, "If today were the last day of my life, would I want to do what I am about to do today" And whenever the answer has been "no" for too many days in a row, I know I need to change something. Remembering that I'll be dead soon is the most important thing I've ever encountered to help me make the big choices in life, because almost everything--all external expectations, all pride, all fear of embarrassment or failure--thesethings just fall away in the face of death, leaving only what is truly important. Remembering that you are going to die is the best way I know to avoid the trap of thinking you have something to lose. You are already naked. There is no reason not to follow your heart.About a year ago, I was diagnosed with cancer. I had a scan at 7:30 in the morning and it clearly showed a tumor on my pancreas. I didn't even know what a pancreas was. The doctors told me this was almost certainly a type of cancer that is incurable, and that I should expect to live no longer than three to six months. My doctor advised me to go home and get my affairs in order, which is doctors' code for "prepare to die." It means to try and tell your kids everything you thought you'd have the next ten years to tell them, in just a few months. It means to make sure that everything is buttoned up so that it will be as easy as possible for your family. It means to say your goodbyes.I lived with that diagnosis all day. Later that evening I had a biopsy where they stuck an endoscope down my throat, through my stomach into my intestines, put a needle into my pancreas and got a few cells from the tumor. I was sedated but my wife, who was there, told me that when they viewed the cells under a microscope, the doctor started crying, because it turned out to be a very rare form of pancreatic cancer that is curable with surgery. I had the surgery and, thankfully, I am fine now.This was the closest I've been to facing death, and I hope it's the closest I get for a few more decades. Having lived through it, I can now say this to you with a bit more certainty than when death was a useful but purely intellectual concept. No one wants to die, even who want to go to Heaven don't want to die to get there, and yet, death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because death is very likely the single best invention of life. It's life's change agent; it clears out the old to make way for the new. right now, the new is you. But someday, not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. Sorry to be so dramatic, but it's quite true. Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. Don't be trapped by dogma, which is living with the results of other people's thinking. Don't let the noise of others' opinions drown out your own inner voice, heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.When I was young, there was an amazing publication called The Whole Earth Catalogue, which was one of the bibles of my generation. It was created by a fellow named Stuart Brand not far from here in Menlo Park, and he brought it to life with his poetic touch. This was in the late Sixties, before personal computers and desktop publishing, so it was all made withtypewriters, scissors, and Polaroid cameras. it was sort of like Google in paperback form thirty-five years before Google came along. I was idealistic, overflowing with neat tools and great notions. Stuart and his team put out several issues of the The Whole Earth Catalogue, and then when it had run its course, they put out a final issue. It was themid-Seventies and I was your age. On the back cover of their final issue was a photograph of an early morning country road, the kind you might find yourself hitchhiking on if you were so adventurous. Beneath were the words, "Stay hungry, stay foolish." It was their farewell message as they signed off. "Stay hungry, stay foolish." And I have always wished that for myself, and now, as you graduate to begin anew, I wish that for you. Stay hungry, stay foolish.Thank you all, very much.。

我是Bob CringelyI’m Bob Cringely,16年前（1995年）我制作《书呆子的胜利》时采访了乔布斯16 years ago when I was making my television series Triumph of the Nerds, I interviewed Steve Jobs.1985年乔布斯被他自己引荐的CEO John Sculley排挤出苹果That was in 1995, 10 years earlier Steve had left Apple, following a bruising struggle with John Sculley, the CEO he had brought into the company.接受釆访时，乔布斯正在经营他创办的NeXT公司At the time of our interview, Steve was running NeXT, the niche computer company he founded after leaving Apple.18个月后苹果收购NeXT，半年后乔布斯重新掌管苹果Little did we know was within 18 months he would sell NeXT to Apple, and 6 month later he'd be running the place.[00:59]当年的节目只用了一小段采访The way things work in television we use only a part of that interview in the series.九十年代末采访母带从伦敦运往美国途中遗失And for years we thought the interview was lost for forever多年来我们一直以为再也看不到完整的采访because the master tape were missing while being shipped from London to US in the 1990s.然而几天前导演Paul Sen在车库里发现了一份VHS拷贝Then just a few days ago, series director Paul Sen found a VHS copy of that interview in his garage.乔布斯生前很少接受电视采访，如此精彩的访谈更是罕见There are very few TV interviews with Steve Jobs and almost no good ones.它记录了乔布斯的坦率，非凡的魅力和独特的视野They rarely show the charisma, candor and vision that this interview does.为了向这位奇人致敬，我们几乎一刀未剪And so to honor an amazing man, here’s that interview in its entirety,大部分内容是首次公布于众Most of these has never been seen before.[01:40]Bob: 你是怎么与个人计算机结缘的？Bob: So, how did you get involved, uh, with personal computers?Steve: 我第一次见到计算机是10或11岁Steve: Well, I ran into my first computer when I was about 10 or 11.很难回忆当年的情景，我快成老古董了And it’s hard to remember back then but I’m, I’m an old fossil now, I’m an old fossil...大约30多年前，见过电脑的人不多So when I was 10 or 11, that was about 30 years ago and no one had ever seen a computer.即使见到，也是在电影里To the extent they’d seen them, they’d seen them in the movies.那时电影里的计算机都是装有开盘机的大柜子，闪闪发光And they were really big boxes with whirring. For some reason they fixated it on the tape drives, as being the icon of what the computer was, or flashing light somehow.真正了解计算机功能和原理的人不多And, so nobody had ever seen one. They were mysterious, very powerful things that did something in the background.有机会接触计算机的人更是寥寥无几And so to see one and actually get to use one was a real privilege back,我有幸在NASA Ames研究中心见到一台and I got into NASA Ames Research Center and I got to use a time sharing terminal.那还不是一台完整的计算机，只是一台分时共享的终端机And so I didn’t actually see a computer but I saw a time sharing terminal.设备非常简陋，连显示器都没有And in those days it’s hard to remember how primitive it was. There were no such things as a computer with a graphics video display.只是一台带键盘的电传打印机It was literally a printer. It was a teletype printer with keyboard on it,你在键盘上输入指令耐心等待，然后它会哒哒哒地输出结果so you would keyboard this commands in and you would wait for a while, and then things would go "tatatatatata", and it would tell you something else.[02:58]即便如此这玩意也太奇妙了，尤其是对十岁的男孩而言But even with that, it was still remarkable, especially for a 10-year-old,你可以用Basic语言或Fortran语言编写程序that you could write a program in BASIC, let's say, or FORTRAN.机器接受并执行你的设想，然后把结果告诉你And actually this machine would sort of take your idea, and it would sort of execute your idea and give you back some results.如果结果和设想的一样，说明程序见效了，这太让人激动了And if they were the results you predicted, your program really work, and it was incredibly thrilling experience.我完全给计算机迷住了So I became very err.... captivated by computer.当然计算机对我而言仍然有些神秘And a computer to me was still a little mysterious因为真正的计算机藏在电缆的另一端，而我从未见过cause it's at the other end of wire, I had never really seen the actual computer itself.打那以后我总想着计算机I think I got tours of computers after that, saw the insides,后来我参加了惠普的兴趣小组and then I was part of this group at Hewlett-Packard12岁时我打电话给Bill Hewlett，他当时住在惠普when I was 12, I called up Bill Hewlett who lived in Hewlett-Packard at the time.当时所有电话号码都印在号码簿里，又暴露了我的年龄And again this dates me... But there was no such thing as unlisted telephone number then,只要翻电话号码簿，就能查到他的电话so I can just look into the book and look his name up.[04:01]他接了电话，我说我叫Steve Jobs，你不认识我And he answered the phone, and I said Hi, My name is Steve Jobs. You don't know me,我12岁，打算做频率计数器，需要些零件but I'm 12 years old, and I'm building a frequency counter, and I'd like some spare parts.我们聊了大概20分钟and so he talked to me for about 20 minutes,我永远记得他不但给了零件，还邀请我夏天去惠普打工I will never forget as long as I live, he gave me the parts, but he also gave me a job working in Hewlett-Packard that summer.我才12岁，这件事对我产生了不可思议的影响and I was 12 years old. and that really made a remarkable influence on me,惠普是我见过的第一家公司Hewlett-Packard was really the only company I'd ever seen in my life at that age.它让我懂得了什么是公司，如何善待员工And it forms my view of what a company was and how well they treated their employees.[04:40]那时还没有胆固醇偏高一说You know, at that time, I mean they didn't know about cholesterol back then.每天上午十点公司拖来满满一卡车的甜面圈和咖啡And then at that time they used to bring a big car full of donuts and coffee out at 10 o'clock every morning,大家停下工作喝杯咖啡，品尝甜面圈and everyone take a coffee and have a donut break, just little things like that .很明显惠普明白公司真正的价值在于员工It was clear that the company recognized its true values was its employees.之后我每周二晚都去惠普的Palo Alto实验室So anyway, things led to things with HP and I started going up to their Palo Alto Research Labs every Tuesday night,与一些研究人员见面with a small group of people to meet some of the researchers and staffs.我见到了第一台台式计算机 HP 9100and I saw the first desktop computer ever made which was the HP 9100.大概有行李箱那么大，装着小小的CRT显示器It was that as big as a suitcase but it actually had a small Cathode Ray Tube (CRT) display in it.它是一台可以独立工作的一体机，我很喜欢And it was completed self-contained. There was no wire going off behind the curtain somewhere, and I fell in love with it.它使用Basic或APL编程，我常常数小时地守着它编程And you could program BASIC in APL. And I would just, for hours, you know, get right up to HP and just hang around that machine and write programs for it.差不多也是在那时我认识了Steve Wozniakso that was the early days. And I met Steve Wozniak around that time too.我大约十四五岁，可能还要小些maybe a little earlier, when I was about 14, 15 years old.我俩很投缘，他是我遇到的第一个比我更懂电子知识的人and we immediately hit it off , and he was the first person I met who knew more electronics than I did.他大概比我大五岁，我很喜欢他So I like him a lot and he was, uh, maybe 5 years older than I.他因为制造恶作剧被大学开除He gone off to college and got kicked out for pulling pranks.刚刚回到父母家，正在修De Anza大专的课程And he was living with his parents and going to De Anza, the local junior college.我们成了最要好的朋友，开始一起做项目so we became best friends and started doing projects together.我们在《Esquire》杂志上看到有个叫Captain Crunch的人We read about the story in Esquire magazine about this guy named Captain Crunch,据说他有办法打免费电话，你肯定也听说过who could supposedly make free telephone calls, you heard about this I'm sure.我们很好奇，怎么可能做到呢？And we again, we were captivated. How could anybody do this?多半是吹牛And we thought it must be a hoax.我们开始泡图书馆，寻找打免费电话的秘密And we started looking through libraries, looking for the secret tones that would allow you to do this.一天晚上我们去了斯坦福线性加速中心And it turned out that we were at Stanford Linear Accelerate Center one night,在科技图书馆角落的最后一排书架上and way in the bowels of their technical library, way down at the last bookshelf in the corner bottom rack.我们找到一份AT&T技术手册，揭开了所有的秘密We found an AT&T Technical Journal that laid out the whole thing.(AT&T:/wiki/AT&T)我永远忘不了那一刻And that's another moment I'll never forget.我们看着这份手册，心想老天这一切都是真的We saw this journal and we thought "My God! It's all real".于是我们着手制作能够发出这种音频的装置And so we set out to build a device to make these tones.它的原理是这样的，我们打长途电话时会听到嘟嘟的声音And the way it work was, you know when you make long distance call you used to hear "dududududu" right in the background.听起来像拨电话的按键音，但是频率不同They were tones that sound like the touch tone you make on your phone, but they were a different frequency so you couldn’t make them.实际上那是从一台计算机传到另一台计算机的信号It turned out that was the signal from one telephone computer to another,它可以控制交换机的工作controlling the computers in the network.AT&T公司设计的数字电话网络有严重漏洞And AT&T made a fatal flaw when they designed an original telephone network, digital telephone network,他们使用与声音相同的频段来发送控制信号was they put the signal in from computer to computer in the same band as your voice,也就是说只要你模拟出相同的音频信号，通过听筒发送出去which meant if you could make those same signals, you could put it right into the handset.整个AT&T的国际电话网就会把你当成一台AT&T计算机And literally, the entire AT&T international phone network would think that you were an AT&T computer.三周后我们做出了这样的一个装置，真的管用So after three weeks we finally built a box like this, that worked.我记得第一个电话想打给Woz住在洛杉矶的亲戚And I remember the first call we made was down to, uh, LA, one of Woz‘s relativesdown in Pasadena.我们拨错了号码，大半夜把某个家伙吵醒了We dialed the wrong number. But we woke some guy up in the middle of the night.我们兴奋地冲他嚷嚷：打这个电话是免费的we were yelling at him like ‘Don’t you understand we made this call for free!’对方一点也不感激我们，但这已经是奇迹了and this person didn’t appreciate that. But it was miraculous.我们做出了这个称为“蓝盒子”的装置And we build these little boxes to do “Blue Boxing” as it was called.盒子底部贴着我们的logo，写着“世界握在手中”And we put a little note in the bottom of them, and our logo was he’s got the whole world in his hands, hahaha这是世界上最好的“蓝盒子”，全数字化，简便易用And, they worked. We built the best blue box in the world, it was all digital, no adjustments.[08:44]你可以拿着它去电话亭轻松拨打长途电话And, so you could go to the pay phone, you could, you know, take a trunk over the white plane,打卫星电话去欧洲去土耳其，然后接有线电话打回亚特兰大and take a satellite over the Europe, and then go to Turkey, take a cable back to Atlanta.你可以满世界跑，跑五六趟，因为我们知道所有的交换密码You could go around the world, you could go around the world 5 or 6 times cause we learned all the codes and how to get on the satellite and stuff.你可以给家门口的电话亭打电话，在家喊话And then you could call the pay phone next doors, so you could shout at the phone,隔一会电话亭就能听到，真是奇妙after about a minute it would come to another phone, it was, it was miraculous.你也许会问这样做有意思吗？And you might ask what so interesting about that.它的意义在于虽然我们年纪还小What so interesting is that we were young, and what we learned was that we could build something, ourselves,但已经意识到我们有能力做出控制庞大系统的工具that could control billions of dollars worth of infrastructure in the world.这就是我们得到的启发，我们两个人尽管懂得不多That was what we learned, was that, us, two, you know, we didn’t know much,但我们制造的小玩意可以控制庞然大物we could build the little thing that could control a giant thing.这是不可思议的经历，没有“蓝盒子”就不会有苹果电脑And that was an incredible lesson. I don’t think there would have ever been an Apple computer had there not been Blue Box.[09:51]Bob: Woz说你们给教皇打了电话？Bob: Woz said you called the Pope?Steve: 没错，他冒充基辛格给教皇打电话Steve: Yeah, we did call the Pope. He, uh, he pretended to be Henry Kissinger.我们弄到梵蒂冈的电话号码，打电话给教皇And we get the number of the Vatican and we called the pope.教会的重要人物逐个被叫醒They started waking people up in the hierarchy, you know, I don’t know, Cardinals, and this and that.最后终于派人把教皇叫起来And they actually sent someone to wake up the Pope.要不是我们憋不住哈哈大笑起来，他们还真以为是基辛格When finally we burst out laughing they realized that we weren’t Henry Kissinger.(Henry Kissinger：/view/21632.htm)虽然没跟教皇通上话，但实在是搞笑And, so we never got the talk to the Pope but it was very funny, so...Bob: 你们是怎么从“蓝盒子”想到做个人电脑的？Bob: So the jump from Blue Boxes to personal computers, what sparked that?Steve: 这很自然Steve: Well, necessity.当时Mountain View有分时共享计算机，我们可以免费上机In a sense that there was time sharing computers available, and there was a time sharing company in Mountain View that we could get free time on.但我们需要一个终端，买不起就自己动手设计制作So, but we need a terminal. And we couldn’t afford one. So we designed and built one.这个终端是我们的第一件作品And that was the first thing we ever did, we built this terminal.Apple I是这台终端的扩展，它用微处理器代替了后台主机So what an Apple I was, was really an extension of this terminal, putting a micro process around the back end.就像是把两个独立的项目整合在一起That’s what it was. It’s really a kind of two separate projects put together.一开始是做终端，然后才是Apple ISo first we built the terminal and then we built the Apple I.[11:03]自己动手做完全是因为我们买不起And we, we really built it for ourselves because we couldn’t afford to buy anything.我们四处收集零件，全部手工制作And we scavenge parts here and there and stuff. And we built this all by hand做一台大概要40~80小时，那些小零件太难安装了I mean it take, you know, 40 to 80 hours to build one, and it would always be breaking cause all these little tiny wires.后来周围很多朋友也想要So it turned out that a lot of our friends want to build them, too.虽然他们也能弄到零件，但他们不具备制作经验和技能And although they could scavenge most of the parts as well, they didn’t have the sort of skills to build them that we had acquired by training ourselves through building them.我们只好替他们做，这事占用了我们所有时间So we ended up helping them build most of their computers and it was really taking up all of our time.于是我们想到制作印刷电路板And we thought, you know, if we could make, what’s called printed circuit board,就是在镀铜的玻璃纤维板两面腐蚀出铜导线which is a piece of fiberglass with copper on both sides that’s etched to form the wire,采用印刷电路板，只要几小时就能做出一台Apple Iso that you can build a computer, you know, you can build an Apple I in a few hours instead of 40 hours.我们打算把电路板以成本价卖给朋友，把钱赚回来if we only had one of those, we could sell them to all of our friends for, you know as much as it cost to make them, make our money back这样皆大欢喜，我们也可以休息休息and everybody would be happy, we say, we’d get a life again.[12:18]说干就干，我把大众Microbus卖了，Woz卖了他的计算器So we did that. I sold my Volkswagen bus and Steve sold his calculator,我们凑够了钱，请朋友设计印刷电路板we got enough money to pay a friend of us to make the art work to make a printed circuit board.电路板做出来后，卖了一部分给朋友And we made some printed circuit boards, and we sold some to our friends,我想把剩下的也卖了，把Microbus和计算器赎回来and I was trying to sell the rest of them so we can get micro bus and calculator back….我去了世界上第一家计算机商店，Mountain View的字节商店And I walked into the first computer store in the world, which was the Byte Shop of a Mountain View, I think, on El Camino.那时它藏在一家成人书店里It metamorphosized within an adult bookstore a few years later, but at this point, it was the Byte Shop.我见到了老板Paul TerrellAnd the person I ran into, I think his name was Paul Terrell.(Mountain View: /view/732047.htmPaul Terrell:/wiki/Paul_Terrell(Byte Shop:/index.php?edition-view-133489-1)Paul说“我预订50套”，我说“太好了”He said ”You know, I’ll take 50 of those”, I said “this is great”.“但我要完全组装好的计算机”“ But I want them fully assembled”[13:00]我们从没想过出售整机，不过还是答应了We never thought of this before, so we then kicked this around,何乐而不为呢？we thought “Why not? Why not try this?”我花了好几天打电话联系电子元件批发商And so I spent the next several days on the phone talking with electronic parts distributors,告诉对方需要哪些零件，我们完全是摸着石头过河we didn’t know what we were doing, and we said, “look, here is the parts that we need”我们打算买100套零件We figured we’d buy a hundred sets of parts, build 50,做好后以两倍的成本价卖给字节商店50台sell them to the Byte Shop for twice what they cost us to build them,剩下50台就是我们的利润therefore paying for the whole hundred and then we have 50 left so we could make our profits by selling those.我们说服批发商赊给我们零件，30天后还款so we convince these distributors to give us the parts on net 30 days credit.我俩就这样懵懵懂懂地拿到了零件We have no idea what that meant... “Net 30? sure... sign in here”, so we have 30 days to pay them.Apple I做好后，卖了50台给字节商店So we bought the parts, we built the products and we sold 50 of them to the Byte Shop in Palo Alto,第29天才收到账款，第30天正好付清赊零件的钱and got paid in 29 days and went to pay off the parts people in 30 days.我们就这样做起了生意，不过也碰到利润危机And so we were in business, but we have the classic Marxian profit realization crisis,[14:00]我们的利润不是现金，而是堆在角落的50台电脑the profit wasn’t in liquid currency, our profit was in 50 computers sitting in the corner.我们不得不考虑如何实现利润so then all of a sudden, we had to think, wow, how we gonna realize our profit?我们想继续寻找批发商，是不是还有其他计算机商店？so we started thinking about distribution, are there any other computer stores?我们打电话给全国的计算机商店，就这样做起了生意We started calling the other computer stores we had heard of across the country. We just kind of eased into business that way.[14:19][苹果的第三位关键创始人是英特尔前高管Mike Markkula]The third key figure in the creation of Apple was the former Intel executive Mike Markkula[我问Steve他是怎么入伙的]I ask Steve how he came aboard.（Mike Markkula:/zh/%E8%BF%88%E5%85%8B%C2%B7%E9%A9%AC%E5%BA%93% E6%8B%89）当时我们正在设计Apple IISteve: We were designing the Apple II.我们对它充满了期待And we really had some, some much higher ambitions for the Apple II.Woz希望实现彩色图形界面Woz's ambitions were he wanted to add color graphics.[14:45]我希望…My ambition was that,当时有一大群硬件爱好者，他们自己组装电脑it was very clear to me that while there were a bunch of hardware hobbyists, they could assemble around the computers,或者用我们的主板，自己安装电源、键盘等等or at least take our board, and add the transformers for the power apply, the case, the keyboard, and go get, and etc. You know, go get rest of the stuff.还有许多人是软件爱好者，他们只想写程序For everyone of those, there were a thousand of people, they couldn't do that but wanted to mess around with programming,就像我10岁刚刚接触计算机那样software hobbyists, just like I had been, you know, when I was 10, discovering that computer.所以我希望Apple II成为第一款功能齐备的个人电脑And so my dream for the Apple II was to sell the first real packaged computer, packaged personal computer.就算你不懂硬件也能轻松使用You didn't have to be a hardware hobbyist at all.这就是我们对Apple II的基本设想And so combining both of those dreams, we actually designed a product.我找到设计师，设计了所有细节And I found the designer and we designed the packaging and everything.我们还打算使用塑料机身，什么都想好了And we wanted to make it out of plastic and we had the whole thing ready to go.可我们资金不足，还缺几万美元But we needed some money for tooling the cases and things like that. We needed a few thousand of dollars. And this was way beyond our means.于是我开始寻找风险投资So I went looking for some venture capital.我找到Don Valentine，他还来参观了我的车库And I ran across one venture capitalist name Don Valentine, who came over to the garage他说我看起来像人类的叛逆者，这话成了他的名言and he later said I look like a renegade from the human race, that was his famous quote.(Don Valentine: /wiki/Don_Valentine)虽然他不打算投资，但推荐了几个人给我And he said he wasn't willing to invest us but he recommended a few people that might.其中就有Mike MarkkulaOne of those was Mike Markkula.[16:02]我给Mike打电话，跟他见了面So I called Mike on the phone and he came over.Mike以前是英特尔的产品经理And Mike had retired at about 30 or 31 from the Intel,他大概30岁离开英特尔，手里有英特尔的股票he was a product manager there and got a little bit stock.他靠股票期权赚了一百多万，当时非常富有And, you know, made like a million bucks on stock options, which at that time was quite a lot of money.他在家投资石油、天然气之类的生意And he’d been investing in oiling and gas deals and kind of staying at home, doing that sort of thing.我感觉他很想干一番大事业，我俩聊得很投机And he, I think, was, was kind of antsy to get back into something. And Mike and I hit it off very well.最后Mike答应投资And so Mike said, "OK, I'll invest",几周后我说我们不光要钱，我们希望你入伙after a few weeks and I said "No, we don't want your money , we want you."于是Mike成了我们的合作伙伴So we convince Mike to actually throw in with us, as an equal partner.他不仅投资，还参与创业，我们就这样起步了And so Mike put in some money, and Mike put in himself, and three of us went off.我们拿出Apple II的设计，召开新闻发布会We took this design, and it was virtually done as an Apple II, and tooled it up, and announced it,几个月后Apple II首次在西海岸计算机展览会上露面a few months later at the West Coast Computer Faire.(West Coast Computer Faire： /wiki/West_Coast_Computer_Faire)Bob: 情况怎么样？Bob: What was that like?Steve: 妙不可言，Apple II最受欢迎Steve: It was great. We got the best,那时西海岸计算机展览会规模不大，但对我们而言已经很大了you know this West Coast Computer Faire was small at that time, but to us it was very large,[17:12]我们在展台上用投影展示Apple II和它的图形界面and, so we had this fantastic booth there, err, we had a projection television showing the Apple II and showing its graphics现在看有些简单，但当时是PC上最先进的图形界面which today look very crude but at that time were by far the most advanced graphics on the personal computer.我们出尽了风头and I think, you know, my recollection is that we stole the show,[17:30]批发商和经销商蜂拥而至，进展非常顺利and a lot of dealers and distributors started lining up and we were off and running.Bob:: 当时你多大？Bob: How old were you?Steve: 21岁Steve: 21Bob: 21岁就这么大成功Bob: 21? you were 21 and you were a big success,可你从来没有这方面的经验，完全是凭直觉you have just sort of done it by the seat of your pants. You don’t have any particular training on this.你是怎么学会管理公司的？How do you learn to run a company?Steve: 在生意场多年，我发现一个现象Steve: err… you know, throughout the years in business, I found something,我做事前总问为什么which was I always ask why you do things,可得到答案永远是“我们向来这样做”and the answers you invariably get are “oh that’s just the way it’s done”,没人反思为什么这么做，我给你举个例子nobody knows why they do what they do, nobody thinks about things very deeply in business, that’s what I found. I’d like to give you an example.我们在车库里组装Apple I时，成本算得清清楚楚When we were building our apple Is in the garage, we knew exactly what they cost.可工厂生产Apple II时，财务部使用的是标准成本when we got into factory in the Apple II days, the accounting had this notion of the standard cost,每个季度估算标准成本，然后根据实际情况调整where you kind of set a standard cost at the end of a quarter, and you adjust with a variance,于是我不断追问，为什么要这样做？and I kept asking why do we do this?得到的答复是，这是一贯的做法and the answer is “that’s just the way it’s done”,6个月后我发现其实是因为我们无法精确计算成本and after about 6 months of digging into this, what I realized was the reason you do it is because you don’t really have good enough controls to know about how much cost,所以只能先估算，然后进行修正so you guess, and you fix your guess at the end of the quarter.根本原因是信息管理系统不够完善And the reason why you don’t know how much it cost is because your information systems aren’t good enough.但没有人承认这一点so ...but nobody said it that way.后来我们为Macintosh设计自动化工厂，抛开这些陋习So later on when we design this automated factory for Macintosh, we were able to get rid of a lot of these antiquated concepts,做到了精确控制所有成本and know exactly what something costs to the second.生意场上有很多约定俗成的规定，我称为陈规陋习So in business, a lot of things are … I call it “folklore”,因为以前这样做，所以就一直这样做下去they are done because they were done yesterday, and the day before.所以只要你多提问多思考，脚踏实地工作And ...so what that means is that if you are willing to sort of ask a lot of questions, think about things and work really hard,你很快就能的学会经商，这不是什么难事you can learn business pretty fast, not the hardest thing in the world.Bob: 不是什么深奥的技术？Bob : Not rocket science?Steve: 不是Steve: It’s not rocket science. NoBob: 最早接触HP 9100时，你谈到自己编程的事Bob: Now...when you were first coming in contact with these computers and inventing them and before that working on the HP 9100, you do talk about writing programs.都是些什么样的程序？用途是什么？What sort of programs? What do people actually do with these things?Steve: 我举个简单的例子A: See what we did with them, well, I would give you a simple example …我们设计“蓝盒子”时，写了很多程序when we were designing our blue-box we used… we wrote a lot of custom programs to help us design it.用来处理繁琐的计算工作you know to do a lot of the dog work for us in terms of calculating,计算主频、分频之类的东西master frequencies with sub-devisors to get the other frequencies and things like that…还计算不同频率的差错率和容错性we use computer quite a bit to calculate how much error we would get in the frequencies, and how much can be tolerated.编程可以帮助我们完成工作，它没有明确的实用性so we use them in the work, but much more importantly, it does nothing to do with using them for anything practical…重要的是我们把它看作思考的镜子，学习如何思考have to do with using them to be a mirror of your thought process, to actually learn how to think.我认为学习思考最大的价值在于...I think the greatest value of learning how to think....我觉得所有美国人都应该学习编程，学习一门编程语言I think everybody in this country should learn how to program a computer, should learn a computer language,学习编程教你如何思考，就像学法律一样because it teaches you how to think, it’s like going to law school,学法律的人未必都成为律师，但法律教你一种思考方式I don’t think anybody should be a lawyer, but I think going to law school may actually be useful coz it teaches you how to think in a certain way.同样编程会教你另一种思考方式In the same way the computer programming teaches you in a slightly different way how to think...所以我把计算机科学看成基础教育And so … I view computer science as a liberal art.是每个人都应该花一年时间学习的课程It should be something everybody takes in a year in their life, one of the courses they take is, you know learning how to program.[21:33]Bob: 我学了APL，很明显它丰富了我的人生Bob: I learned APL, you know, obviously, is part of the reason why I'm going through life sideways.Steve: 你有没有觉得它教给你独特的思考方式?Steve: Was it you look back and consider it, enriching experience that taught you to think in a different way, or not?Bob: 其他语言也许更明显些，我最先学的APLBob: Err... No, not that particularly. Other language perhaps more so, I started with APL.显然Apple II很成功，公司飞速发展，成功上市So I mean, obviously, the Apple II was a terrific success, just incredibly so. And the company grew like topsy and eventually went public你们都成了富翁，富有的感觉如何？and you guys got really rich. What's it like to get rich?。

1990 wgbh 乔布斯采访视频，1990年时，乔布斯已经离开苹果，还没有返回，当时他在做Next。

乔布斯认为自己的成果会在1990 wgbh 乔布斯采访视频，1990年时，乔布斯已经离开苹果，还没有返回，当时他在做Next。

乔布斯认为自己的成果会在未来10年被遗忘。

乔布斯认为你可以影响生活，“你周围的一切，我们管它叫生活，你可以改变它，可以影响它。

”Name: Interview with Steve JobsProduced by: WGBHDate: May 14, 1990采访视频正式文稿英语文本（1分钟开始）：What is it about this machine? Why is this machine so interesting? Why has it been so influential?I'll give you my point of view on it. I remember reading a magazine article a long time ago, twelve years old maybe, in - I think it was Scientific American. I'm not sure. And the article proposed to measure the efficiency of locomotion for lots of species on planet earth to see which species was the most efficient at getting from point A to point B. And they measured the kilocalories that each one expended. So they ranked them all, and I remember that the condor won, the condor was the most efficient at getting from point A to point B. And humankind, the crown of creation, came in with a rather unimpressive showing about a third of the way down the list. So that didn't look so great. But ah, let me do this over again. I remember reading an article when I was about twelve years old. I think it might have been Scientific American, where they measured the efficiency of locomotion for all these species on planet earth. How many kilocalories did they expend to get from point A to point B? And the condor won, came in at the top of the list, surpassed everything else. And humans came in about a third of the way down the list, which was not such a great showing for the crown of creation. But somebody there had the imagination to test the efficiency of a human riding a bicycle. A human riding a bicycle blew away the condor all the way off the top of the list. And it made a really big impression on me that we humans are tool builders. And that we can fashion tools that amplify these inherent abilities that we have to spectacular magnitudes. And so for me, a computer has always been a bicycle of the mind. Something that takes us far beyond our inherent abilities. And I think we're just at the early stages of this tool. Very early stages. And we've come only a very short distance. And it'sstill in its formation, but already we've seen enormous changes. I think that's nothing compared to what's coming in the next hundred years.In program six we're going to look at some of the past predictions of why people have been so wrong about the future. And one of the notions is that today's vision of a standalone computer is just as limited as those past visions of it being only a number cruncher. What's the difference philosophically between a network machine and a standalone machine?Let me answer that question a slightly different way. If you look at why the majority of people have bought these things so far, there have been two real explosions that have propelled the industry forward. The first one really happened in 1977. And it was the spreadsheet. I remember when Dan Fylstra who ran the company that marketed the first spreadsheet, walked into my office at Apple one day and pulled out this disk from his vest pocket and said, "I have this incredible new program. I call it a visual calculator." And it became Visicalc. And that's what really propelled the Apple II to the success it achieved more than any other single event. And with the invention of Lotus 123, and I think it was 1982, that's what really propelled the IBM PC to the level of success that it achieved. So that was the first explosion was the spreadsheet. The second major explosion that has driven our industry has been desktop publishing. (Intermission)The...the second really big explosion in our industry has been desktop publishing. Happened in 1985 with the Macintosh and the laser writer printer. And at that point,people could start to do on their desktops things that only typesetters and printers could do prior to that. And that's been a very big revolution in publishing. And those are really, those two explosions have been the only two real major revolutions which have caused a lot of people to buy these things and use them. The third one is starting to happen now. And the third one is, let's do for human to human communication what spreadsheets did for financial planning and what desktop publishing did for publishing. Let's revolutionize it using these desktop devices. And we're already starting to see the signs of that. As an example in an organization, we're starting to see that as business conditions change faster and faster with each year, we cannot change our management hierarchical organization very fast relative to the changing business conditions. We can't have somebody working for a new boss every week. We also can't change our geographic organization very fast. As a matter of fact even slower than the management one. We can't be moving people around the country every week. But we can change an electronic organization like that (snaps fingers). And what's starting to happen is as we start to link these computers together with sophisticated networks and great user interfaces, we're starting to be able to create clusters of people working on a common task, you know literally in fifteen minutes worth of setup. And these fifteen people can work together extremely efficiently no matter where they are geographically. And no matter who they work for hierarchically. And these organizations can live for as long as they're needed and then vanish. And we're finding we can reorganize our companies electronically very rapidly. And that's theonly type of organization that can begin to keep pace with the changing business conditions. And I believe that this collaborative model has existed in higher education for a long time. But we're starting to see it applied into the commercial world as well. And this is going to be the third major revolution that these desktop computers provide is revolutionizing human to human communication in group work. We call it interpersonal computing. In the 1980s we did personal computing. and now we're going to extend that as we network these things to interpersonal computing.What was the image of the computer in the mid 1960s or whenever you first saw one? And where are we now? How did the PC enact that change?I saw my first computer when I was twelve. And it was at NASA. We had a local NASA center nearby. And it was a terminal, which was connected to a big computer somewhere and I got a timesharing account on it. And I was fascinated by this thing. And I saw my second computer a few years later which was really the first desktop computer ever made. It was made by Hewlett Packard. It was called the 9100-A. And it ran a language called Basic. And it was very large. It had a very small cathode ray tube on it for display. And I got a chance to play with one of those maybe in 1968 or 69. And spent every spare moment I had trying to write programs for it, I was so fascinated by this. And so I was probably fairly lucky. And then my introduction to computers very rapidly moved from a terminal to within maybe twelve months or so, actually seeing one of the first, probably the first desktopcomputer ever...ever really produced. And, so my point of view never really changed from being able to get my arms around it even though my arms didn't quite fit around that first one.What was the role, how have personal computers changed the landscape of computers? I mean back then it was centralized power, it was in a mainframe. Now we have three times as much power at the fringe than we have in the center, five times as much power. How did the PC change the world?Well, though the analogy is nowhere perfect and certainly one needs to factor out the environmental concerns of the analogy as well, there is a lot to be said for comparing it to going from trains, from passenger trains to automobiles. And the advent of the automobile gave us a personal freedom of transportation. In the same way the advent of the computer gave us the ability to start to use computers without having to convince other people that we needed to use computers. And the biggest effect of the personal computer revolution has been to allow millions and millions of people to experience computers themselves decades before they ever would have in the old paradigm. And to allow them to participate in the making of choices and controlling their own destiny using these tools. But it has created problems. And the largest problems are that now that we have all these very powerful tools, we're still islands and we're still not really connecting these people using these powerful tools together. And that's really been the challenge of the last few years and the next several years is how to connect these things backtogether so that we can, can rebuild a fabric of these things rather than just individual points of light, if you will. And get the benefit of both, the passenger train and the automobile.What's the vision behind the NeXT machine?Everything I've done with computers in my life has been along pretty much a single vector. And NeXT is just one more point on that same vector. In this case what we...we observed was that the computing power we could give to an individual was an order magnitude more than the PCs were giving. In the sense that people want to do many things at once and you really need true multitasking. We really did want to start to network these things together in very sophisticated networks. So the technology to build that in became available. And most important we saw a way to build a software system that was about ten times as powerful than any PC. And where new software could be created in a fourth of the time. So we spent four years with fifty to a hundred of the best software people we could find building this new software system. And it's turned out beautifully.What's the vision behind NeXT?It's not so much different than everything I've ever done in my life with computers starting with the Apple II and the Macintosh, and now NeXT, which is if you believe that these are the most incredible tools we've ever built, which I do, then the more powerful tool we can give to people, the more they can do with it. And in this case we found a way to do two or three things that were real breakthroughs. Numberone was to put a much more powerful computer in front of people for about the same price as a PC. The second was to integrate that networking into the computer so we can begin to make this next revolution with interpersonal computing. And the PCs so far have not been able to do that very well. And the third thing, and maybe the most important, was to create a whole new software architecture from the ground up, that lets us build these new types of applications and let's us build them in 25 percent of the time that it normally takes to do on a PC. So we spent four years with 50 to a hundred of the best software people that I know creating a whole new software platform from the ground up. And the way our industry works is that you create this platform software first and then you go out and you get people to write new applications on top of it. Well the height that these new applications can soar is enabled or limited by the platform software. And there's only been three systems that have ever been successful in the whole history of desktop computing and that was the Apple II's platform software, of which there wasn't too much, the IBM PC, and Macintosh. So we're attempting to create the fourth platform software standard, and hopefully we'll succeed because it will allow these applications to be written which far, far exceed in capacity what can be done in today's machines.What happens when you have a network that allows the relative minorities in a whole different area to come together. How does that change democracy?I don't know.Okay.But...but what I have seen, is I've seen interpersonal computing happening at our own company. Or maybe the best way to put it is, I remember when the first spreadsheet came out. I saw it fly through Apple as well as other companies. And when we invented desktop publishing, of course it influenced Apple first. And I've seen the same thing happen with interpersonal computing here at NeXT. We decided to put a NeXT machine on every employee's desktop about 18 months ago, and connect them with the very highspeed networking that's built in. And I've seen the revolution here with my own eyes. And it's actually larger than the first two. Let me give you some examples. If we're going to be doing a special project let's say with a company, and let's say the company is called, what's your...WGBH.WGBH. We're going to be doing a special project with WGBH. And what we'll do is we'll create a special mailbox, WGBH and we'll put twenty people on it that are going to be helping on this project. Now these twenty people will be from all over our company. From marketing, from sales, from engineering, some from manufacturing. Maybe some from our Boston office so they can be close by. And if one sends a message to this mailbox, [snaps finger] they'll all get it like that, instantly. And if one sends a reply they'll copy the whole mailbox so the rest of the team members get to read the intellectual content going back and forth. And everyone on this, in this mailbox will probably get around 30 mail messages a day.And they'll spend about twenty minutes, thirty minutes reading these and answering these per day. And it will be like a beehive. Now this project is very important for our company and I want to make sure it's getting off right. So I'll put my own name on this mailbox and l'll see these thirty mail messages fly by. All of the disagreements and the arguments and the thoughts and the decisions. And I can just let it fly by and read it. I can do some background coaching with a few people if I think they're a little off track. I can get right on the network and kibbutz if I'd like. And after a month or so when I know that it's going well I can take my name off. And so not only is this a way to organize violating all management and geographic boundaries, it's also a way to manage, where one can see, again, the thoughts, disagreements and decisions of a company fly by a manager in a way that they never could before. And we have seen it reduce the number of meetings we have at least by fifty percent. We've seen it get far more managers and individual contributors involved in decisions than there ever were before. We think the quality of the decisions is a lot higher. And we've seen a window for management to look into the process of this organism we call our company in a way that has never before been possible. As we become part of this electronically community that's going to provide us all these wonderful new capabilities and communications abilities, but we still always want to be able to disconnect that network spigot, take it off, and take our standalone computer somewhere, let's say home. Now what's going to happen rapidly as with radio links and with fiber optics to the home, you're going to be able to hook your computer up to your network athome. but there's always going to be that cabin in the middle of nowhere that I want to go for a two week vacation where I want my computer. And if it doesn't work in a completely standalone way, I'm going to be no happy. So we have to provide a fluid way for these things to kind of dock into the mother load network, but also undock and allow me as an individual to carry my computer up into Yosemite backpacking. And where there's no radio links and no fiber optic links and still be able to use it and then come back and dock back into the network and find out what happened when I left and share some of my thoughts maybe with some other folks. So we're working on that. That's our goal for the next five years is that seamless transition between a standalone computer and the computer as part of this network community.It also keeps away the Orwellian aspects of always being hooked into the network.That's right. I actually think what an interesting paradox is that it's the network which is ultimately going to define and create the home computer market. Not keeping our recipes on these things or something like we thought in 1975. Being a part of that network and not being able to stay away from it while you're at home, will drive people to get computers in every house just like we have a telephone in every house.But computers then then won't be just computers. They'll be radios, and stereos, and TVs.No I think, I think they'll be just computers. Just like your phone isn't your television set. Just like your toaster isn't your radio. I think they'll be computers and they'll have many of the capabilities of these other devices. multimedia, the ability to integrate sound and video in with the computer is absolutely coming. But a lot of people have mistaken it as the end rather than the means. We see multi media as more of a means. In other words, people aren't going to buy a computer for multi media. They're going to buy it for training. Or they're going to buy it for interpersonal communication. And in that communication, in addition to a text, they're going to want voice. They're going to want, potentially I might want to send you a videoclip. But the real market is to help us communicate better, or to help us train somebody. And we need to not lose sight of that.I want to get your thoughts on the user interface stuff. And I'd like to look at the transition Xerox to Apple. When did you hear, what was the image of Xerox PARC and what was it like when you first went in there?Well Xerox PARC was a research lab set up by Xerox when they were making a lot of profits in the copier days. And they were doing some computer science research which was basically an extension of some stuff started by a guy named Doug Engelbart when he was at SRI. Doug had invented the mouse, and invented the bitmap display. And some Xerox folks that Xerox I believe hired away from Doug or split off from Doug somehow and got to Xerox, were continuing along in this vain. And I first went over there in 1979, and I saw what they were doing with the largerscreens, proportionately spaced text, and the mouse. And it was just instantly obvious to anyone that this was the way things should be. And so I remember coming back to Apple thinking, our future has just changed. This is where we have to go. The problem was that Xerox had never made a commercial computer. This group of people at Xerox was more concerned with looking out fifteen years than they were looking out fifteen months trying to make a product that somebody could use. So there were a lot of issues that they hadn't solved like menus, other things like that. And at Apple what we had to do was to do two things. One was complete the research which really was only about fifty percent complete. And the second was to find a way to implement it at a low enough cost where people would buy it. And that was really our challenge.What did you succeed in doing with the Mac?Well the Macintosh, as you remember, when it came out, we called it the computer for the rest of us. And what that meant was that while experts could use some of the computers that were already out, most people didn't want, again the computer was not an end in itself. It was a means to an end. And so most people didn't want to learn how to use the computer. They just wanted to use it. And the Macintosh was supposed to be the computer for people that just wanted to use a computer without having to learn how to use one, spend six months. Now it turned out that the paradox was that, to make a computer easier to use, you needed a more powerful computer in the first place, because you were going to burn a lot of thecycles on making it easy to use. And so this computer that was easy to use was actually more powerful and could do more things than the less easy to use computer. And it took people a few years to figure that out about the Macintosh. But I think, I think people did.Actually there's a funny joke that we were clowning around one day. And one of our group is an IBM person. And so he was saying, some little girls walks up and sees a prompt and goes to her daddy and says "it's broken". Where's my desktop? Where's my metaphor. And we've gotten, we've adopted this new metaphor. How has that changed the look of computers?Well I think, I think the Macintosh was created by a group of people who felt that there wasn't a strict vision between sort of science and art. Or in other words, that mathematics is really a liberal art if you look at it from a slightly different point of view. And why can't we interject typography in the computers? Why can't we have computers talking to us in English language? And, looking back, five years later, this seems like a trivial observation. But at the time it was cataclysmic in its consequences. And the battles that were fought to push this point of view out the door were very large.The balance between thinking and doing. I mean one of the things in the semiconductors was you had risktakers. Bob Noyce learns to hang-glide at age 40. These people like laying their butts on the line. How important was that in the early days? I mean we're going back to '75.My entire life has been spent only in one industry which is this one. And but I've been in it now for about fifteen years and I've seen a lot of people make a lot of things. I've seen a lot of people fail a lot of things. And my point of view on this, or my observation, is that the doers are the major thinkers. The people that really create the things that change this industry are both the thinker and doer in one person. And if we really go back and we examine, you know, did Leonardo have a guy off to the side that was thinking five years out in the future what he would paint or the technology he would use to paint it, of course not. Leonardo was the artist but he also mixed all his own paints. He also was a fairly good chemist. He knew about pigments, knew about human anatomy. And combining all of those skills together, the art and the science, the thinking and the doing, was what resulted in the exceptional result. And there is no difference in our industry. The people that have really made the contributions have been the thinkers and the doers. And a lot of people of course - it's very easy to take credit for the thinking. The doing is more concrete. But somebody, it's very easy to say 'oh I thought of this three years ago'. But usually when you dig a little deeper, you find that the people that really did it were also the people that really worked through the hard intellectual problems as well.What's it going to take to make computers accessible to the rest of the public. And I don't know what the statistics are but 20 million people on computers or... What's it going to take to get it to a hundred million?Well, probably death is the best invention of life. Because it means there's a constant turnover. And so if you want to make a change in our society, the best place to do it is in the educational system. So that, there are now generations of people that have come out of school, who, computers are second nature to them. And the people in our society that at this point still have, have not embraced these things are getting older and as that cycle, that wheel of birth and death turns, just like driving. People that don't drive are very rare. Another generation or two, people that don't use computers are, will be pretty rare. It's a harsh way of saying it but...It's very true. I mean there is a line that says those people that don't adopt it will die off.Time passes.Focusing now on the third program where we've gone from semiconductors and the vision is that IBM is this big machine, UNIVAC, big large machine. And we take the line through an integrated circuit microprocessor. And I actually got some great stuff from Ted Hoff about, you know, it's a lightbulb. It burns out, you replace it. Then we lead up into the beginnings of the personal computer. So what were you doing at the time and how did that get started?Actually you know, it wasn't Intel that first figured out that the microprocessor was a computer. They designed these things to be used in calculators. And they thought, the reason that the microprocessor came about was they thought if theycould design a slightly programmable one, the next customer that walked in the door that wanted a slightly different calculator, they could just spend a few months rather than a few years designing a new piece of silicone. But, I think the thought of making a computer never really occurred to them. And it was the hobbyists that thought about making a computer out of these things. It was the computer hobbyists community that first did that. And I don't think Intel quite understood that for a few years. But again the first thing that happened was these people came together and formed a club, the Homebrew Computer Club at Stanford was the first one in the country. And it was a beehive of all of these people who were interested in these small little computers. People that might have been ham radio operators, people that might have have worked with large computers, were all gathered together to share, discuss their latest little projects. It was very exciting. And there was not a month that would not go by where some breakthrough didn't happen. And then the first magazine came along, which was Byte magazine, to communicate on a national scale with all these hobbyists. So that it was a very, very exciting dynamic time.What did you think when you saw the Apple I?What did I think when I saw the Apple?Yeah, when you first saw that Woz was building that board.Well it didn't quite work that way actually. What happened was that Woz and I had known each other since I was about 12 or 13 years old. And we built, our firstproject together was we built these little blue boxes, to make free telephone calls. And we had the best blue box in the world. It was this all digital blue box. I don't think it works anymore. But, we had a fun time doing that. So when it came to building a computer together, Woz was the brilliant hardware engineer and focused on the core design of the computer. And I was worrying about which parts we ought to use and how we were going to build these things and how it sort of, and somebody that wasn't a Woz was going to manage to buy all the extra parts you still needed to buy and plug this thing together, because you still needed to buy your own keyboard, your own display, and your own power supply. And, so you needed to be pretty much of a hardware hobbyist. Now we made the, a very important decision was to not offer our computers as a kit. Even though you needed to buy these extra parts. The main computer board itself came fully assembled. We were the first company in the world to do that. Everybody else was offering their little computers as a kit. And what that meant was was there was maybe an order of magnitude of more people who could actually buy our computer and use it then if they had to build it themselves. And the Apple II was actually the first computer to come fully assembled, where you didn't have to do anything. And the reason there was it was our observation that for every hardware hobbyist, someone who could either build the kit themselves or at least find these five or ten extra parts they needed, there were a thousand potential software hobbyists. And if they didn't have to do anything with the hardware except use it, that meant write their own programs. Still there was a much larger group of people。

观乔布斯遗失的访谈有感范文一份观乔布斯遗失的访谈有感1观乔布斯遗失的访谈有感乔布斯，因为他，让那个被咬了一口的苹果风靡全球，但我对他的了解却仅限于此，对他本人并没有什么更深入的了解。

在看这段视频之前，相信大多数人和我一样对他知之甚少。

但是通过这段视频，让我看到乔布斯的坦率、非凡的魅力和独特的视野都让我为之深深折服。

而他这种人格魅力，值得我们在日后的工作中借鉴，更值得引发我们对工作的深入思考。

1在别人的失败中总结教训当时的施乐研究的成果哪怕是现在也是不落人后的，更别说是在那个年代了，然而它却并没有长久的存活下去。

乔布斯说他自己一直在思考，他认为像百事可乐一样，他们的产品可以保持数十年不变而不需要更新，顶多换换包装。

但对于垄断科技公司，例如施乐，产品部门没什么说话的**，而营销部门却很容易掌管公司。

即使它有新的产品，但是想提高业绩还是靠营销部门，产品部门的人逐渐被边缘化，公司就逐渐丧失了打造优秀的产品的热情和能力。

施乐的规模本来可以扩大10倍，但是到最后却消失了。

还有许多公司像施乐一样，他们或许有很多擅长管理流程的人才，但是却忽略了产品本身，而优秀的人是一心想着产品的人，光靠流程和**做不出好产品的。

2团队需要碰撞，优秀的人才需要交流就像是一些有棱角的石头，相互碰撞，发出噪音，最终变成了光滑美丽的石头。

这个比喻可以**一个理想的团队，一群精英的相互碰撞，通过辩论、对抗、争吵、合作、相互打磨，会让点子变得更棒，也会让对方变得更棒，最后产出这些"美丽的石头".当然，在乔布斯的团队中，也会有人感觉不好，大多数人认为那是他们这辈子最辛苦的日子，也有些人认为是他们最幸福的日子，但是没人会否认那是最难忘、最珍贵的日子。

3优秀人才的自尊心，不需要呵护真正优秀自信的人，大家的心思都放在工作上，每人负责一块具体的任务，如果不合格，你要做的只是告诉他们哪里还不够好，但是不能让他们怀疑你的权威性，要用无可置疑的方式告诉他们工作不合格。

遗失的乔布斯访谈95年的一次访谈，竟然被制作单位的编辑将录像备份埋在自己的车库里，由此遗失，如今时隔10多年，直到乔布斯逝世后不久才找出来……当年的那位CEO是怎么形容自己的苹果的呢？这回分享就就是访谈记录的后半部分：做出好产品的关键因素，不在于很会管理流程1984年我们从惠普聘请了一堆人（设计图形界面电脑），我记得和一些人大吵一架。

他们认为最酷的用户界面，是在荧幕底部加上软体键盘，他们没有等比例间距字体的概念，也没有滑鼠的概念。

他们对我大吼大叫，说鼠标要花五年来设计，成本高达三百美元。

最后我受够了，就去外面找到大卫·凯利（David Kelly）设计，结果九十天内就有了成本十五美元的滑鼠，而且功能可靠。

我发现苹果某方面缺少这种人才，能多面向掌握这个想法的人才。

的确要有一个核心团队，但由惠普人马组成的团队显然不行。

这和专业的黑暗面无关，这是因为人们失去了方向（指惠普团队无法多面向思考），随着公司规模越来越大，他们便想复制最初的成功。

许多人认为当初成功的过程，一定有其奇妙之处，于是他们开始尝试把当年的成功经验变成制度。

（所有的管理流程其实都应该是为公司的业务服务的，如果抛弃了业务的目标，为管理而管理，搞流程、搞架构，脱离了产品，脱离了市场，脱离了用户需求，最后就会变成靠惯性发展。

而惯性发展下去往往就成了惰性，看着都在忙活，其实思维完全停止了创新，结果就是被颠覆，只是或早或晚的事。

）不久人们便感到困惑，为什么制度本身变成了答案？这就是为什么IBM会失败的原因。

IBM拥有最好的制度管理人员，但他们忘了设计流程的目的是为了找最棒的答案。

苹果也有点这种状况，我们有很多人很会管理流程，却不知道如何找答案。

最好的人才能找到最棒的答案，但他们是最难管理的人，你不得不容忍他们。

会找答案——这就是好产品的关键因素，不在管理流程而是答案本身。

我们不羞于窃取伟大的想法你问我对产品的直觉从哪里来？终究可以归结为品味，这是品味的问题。

0x00 导言早在1995年，《乔布斯：遗失的访谈》节目里乔布斯提到：「未来，互联网与Web 是一个大趋势。

」这句话在互联网初兴的1995年无疑是具备极强预见性的。

如果，我们把网络空间分为三大组成部分（云->管->端）来看的话，现在的云几乎都是基于Web 的成熟协议来对外提供服务的，比如HTTP 协议，最流行的传输格式是JSON，其次如XML 等。

HTTP 协议的成熟大大促进了端上浏览器（或浏览器内核）的发展，浏览器的发展注定了Web 的势不可挡，HTML/XML->XHTML->HTML5，这种技术架构完美地把背后高冷的信息以可视化的方式呈现在大家面前。

说这些是想说，端上无论是PC、Pad 还是手机，只要你联网，Web 的方式或技术是无处不在的。

因此，随着互联网的不断扩张，WEB攻击的数量逐年上升，占了大部分攻击事件比例。

Web安全已经推到了前沿浪尖，无论是政府还是企业都迫切解决这个棘手的问题。

0x01 回顾Gartner 统计：目前75%攻击转移到应用层。

原有的传统防御设备已经不能满足企业对网络攻击的防御。

在中国，过去的2014年是信息安全爆炸的一年，Dns大劫难，某旅游网站信用卡事件，心脏出血漏洞，破壳漏洞及各大快递，电商和某大型火车票网站的数据都牵动的圈内圈外人的心。

这种趋势并没有在今年有所减缓，例如今年以来四个影响深远的网络安全事件，海康威视被黑客植入代码导致被远程监控（2月27日），网易骨干网遭攻击百万用户无法使用网易服务（5月11日），携程网内部员工误删除代码网站整体宕机12小时（5月28日），国外黑客公司Hacking Team泄露的黑客技术资料（7月6日）0x02 传统的Web攻击及防护1.CSRF跨站请求伪造防护1. 将cookie设置未HttpOnly;2. 增加token ，表单中增加一个隐藏域，提交时将隐藏域提交，服务端验证token;3. 通过referer识别，根据Http协议，在HTTP头中有一个字段交Referer，它记录了HTTP 请求的来源地址。

《乔布斯传》最后一章：乔布斯自述（中英文对照）我的激情所在是打造一家可以传世的公司，这家公司里的人动力十足地创造伟大的产品。

其他一切都是第二位的。

当然，能赚钱很棒，因为那样你才能够制造伟大的产品。

但是动力来自产品，而不是利润。

斯卡利（前百事可乐总裁，1983年，乔布斯为了让当时的百事可乐总裁约翰斯卡利加入苹果，说出了一句至今被人们津津乐道的劝辞：“你是想卖一辈子糖水，还是跟着我们改变世界？”于是斯卡利离开百事可乐加入苹果。

但由于斯卡利和乔布斯经营理念的分歧，1993年，出任苹果首席执行官的斯卡利联合苹果其他董事将乔布斯逐出了由他自己创办的苹果公司。

——圪鎏注）本末倒置，把赚钱当成了目标。

这种差别很微妙，但它却会影响每一件事：你聘用谁，提拔谁，会议上讨论什么事情。

有些人说：“消费者想要什么就给他们什么。

”但那不是我的方式。

我们的责任是提前一步搞清楚他们将来想要什么。

我记得亨利·福特曾说过，“如果我最初问消费者他们想要什么，他们应该是会告诉我，‘要一匹更快的马！’”人们不知道想要什么，直到你把它摆在他们面前。

正因如此，我从不依靠市场研究。

我们的任务是读懂还没落到纸面上的东西。

宝丽来的埃德温· 兰德曾谈过人文与科学的交集。

我喜欢那个交集。

那里有种魔力。

有很多人在创新，但创新并不是我事业最主要的与众不同之处。

苹果之所以能与人们产生共鸣，是因为在我们的创新中深藏着一种人文精神。

我认为伟大的艺术家和伟大的工程师是相似的，他们都有自我表达的欲望。

事实上最早做Mac的最优秀的人里，有些人同时也是诗人和音乐家。

在20 世纪70 年代，计算机成为人们表现创造力的一种方式。

一些伟大的艺术家，像列奥纳多· 达· 芬奇和米开朗基罗，同时也是精通科学的人。

米开朗基罗懂很多关于采石的知识，他不是只知道如何雕塑。

人们付钱让我们为他们整合东西，因为他们不能7天24小时地去想这些。

如果你对生产伟大的产品有极大的激情，它会推着你去追求一体化，去把你的硬件、软件以及内容管理都整合在一起。

《名人传记》之乔布斯遗失的访谈57:抓住机会创造更多的机会And much to Bill and Microsoft's credit they used that fantastic opportunity to create more opportunities for themselves.比尔和微软抓住了机会，创造成了更多机会Most people don't remember but until 1984 with the Mac, Microsoft was not in the application business, which dominated by Lotus.人们忘了微软在1984年之前根本不做应用软件，那时是Lotus的天下And Microsoft took a big gamble, to write for the Mac.微软确实很有胆量，冒险为Mac编写应用程序And they came out with applications that were terrible.刚开始他们的应用程序非常糟But they kept at it and make them better. And eventually, they dominated the Macintosh application market,但他们不断改进，最终占领了Mac的应用市场and then used the spring board of Windows to get into the PC market with the same applications.然后借助Windows这块跳板，打开了PC市场的大门And now they dominated the application business in the PC space too. So they have 2 characteristics.现在他们已经占领了PC市场，我觉得他们有两大优势：I think they are very strong opportunists. And I don't mean that in a bad way.首先，擅长捕捉机会And two, they are like the Japanese. They just keep on coming.其次，像日本人一样锲而不舍And now, they were able to do that because of the revenue stream from the IBM deal.他们起家全靠跟IBM合作But nonetheless they made the most of it and I gave them a lot of credit for that. The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste.但是他们很擅长利用机会，这一点我很佩服They have absolutely no taste, and what that means is... I don't mean that in a small way, I meant that in a big way in the sense that they don't think of original ideas,微软唯一的问题是没品位，完全没有品位可言，只会一味模仿and they don't bring much culture into their products.产品缺少文化和内涵，And you say why is that important为什么这很重要?well, proportionally spaced fonts come from typesetting and beautiful books. 比例字体的灵感来自字体设计和精美书籍That's where one gets the idea. If it weren't for the Mac, they would have never had that in their products.如果没有Mac，微软永远不会想到这些And, so I guess, I'm saddened not by Microsoft's success. I have no problem with their success.让我难过的并非微软的成功，我一点不嫉妒他们They've earned their success, for the most part.他们的成功基本上是靠勤奋工作换来的I have the problem with the fact that they just make really third-rate products. 我难过的是他们做的是三流产品。